Missouri State to Sun Belt Conference?

[Ricardo del Rio]

8,000 butts in seats for a basketball game makes money. There are only 13 scholarships and 4 coaches.

Football has to cover 65 scholarships - plus another 65 for women's sports and 10 - 12 coaches. 8,000 butts in seats for FB kills all the sports at that school.

Want to make the MVC a better conference? Cut out the cancer of a football team that's draining your athletic department dry - and that pretty much nobody in Springfield cares about. Then put enough money into your basketball program to attract and keep a decent coach.

Way too much logic.

MSU is engaged in an emotional process, not a rational process.

When emotion is running amok, all one can do is get out of the way. Logic has no standing in the matter.

[BEARZ77]

Way too much logic.

MSU is engaged in an emotional process, not a rational process.

When emotion is running amok, all one can do is get out of the way. Logic has no standing in the matter.

Really ?? A couple posters on a chat board get all irrational about MSU moving to another conference despite repeated statements by the AD and President to the contrary, and that constitutes your basis for being an expert on the "process" we're involved in. Come on RdR , you usually stick to dissing us on actual misplays, this isn't even real. I know it's off season, but wait for something that has some legs.

Not to mention all the other "informed" opinions about what we need to do to be competitive in the MVC, the most ridiculous stance coming from uniftw who started this thread in the 1st place, not someone from MSU. Over the last few years I've often noted the high degree of success UNI has been able to achieve in a number of significant sports like MBB,VB, FB and recently even WBB, but don't try to act like you're at a level beyond what you are . You're attendance for basketball is putrid, so much so you built a D-2 size arena so it wouldn't look so bad, and this is during your glory period. My god we've had probably 10 years where we drew more average attendance to Women's basketball since we've been in the Valley than you do for your men's team. And how about those Baseball Panthers , oops. See anybody can play that " throw a slam at another school game" and find plenty of ammunition if that's what you want . But at least if you're going to try to play that game, make it real stuff, not something you contrived off a couple posters delusions about what MSU intends to do. WSU posters are playing with house money and a fully loaded gun with extra bullets in their belt; you [uniftw] unwisely are firing caps, so I think I would just focus on your own program and stick to things you know, cause you don't have a clue about MSU and what we intend to do or how we will do it. And while I will applaud your success in a number of sports over the last decade or so, I wouldn't make the mistake of assuming a place beyond your contemporaries.

[TheAsianSensation]

Yep, this is what I thought the thought process would be for MSU. Remember, they suffered two of the biggest at-large snubs in the decade. The MVC has been overall very good for basketball but MSU is the one program that hasn't gotten a bump in prestige from it.

[ShoxNAwe]

WSU killed its football program, in part, because attendance was down to 10,000 per game. What does that say about MSU?

[rlh04d]

Yep, this is what I thought the thought process would be for MSU. Remember, they suffered two of the biggest at-large snubs in the decade. The MVC has been overall very good for basketball but MSU is the one program that hasn't gotten a bump in prestige from it.

I think you're over-stating the tournament "snubs." The 2006-07 year is a legitimate snub to me. They simply didn't deserve to make the tournament in 2010-11, though.

They missed the tournament with a record of 25-8 and a RPI of 43. They also missed the tournament with a 3-6 record against the RPI top 100 and a 0-1 record against the top 50, with a 128 SOS.

Southern Miss missed the tournament this year with a better record at 27-6, better RPI at 34, better record against the top RPI 100 at 5-4, better record against the top 50 at 1-1, and a slightly worse SOS at 132.

They had the same number of "bad" losses as well ... both with two, MSU to #112 and #136, Southern Miss to #153 and #128 (Miss' are slightly worse, but they were both on the road; one of MSU's bad ones was at home). Southern Miss also had the better nonconference SOS at 153, compared to MSU's 201. They both won the regular season title for their conference. Yet I never hear any complaints about Southern Miss missing the tourney this year.

Even the 2006-07 year, they were 21-10, the #36 RPI and had a #43 SOS, but they were also 6-10 against the top 100, 3-5 against the top 50, with one bad loss. Missouri this year was 23-11, #44 RPI, #61 SOS, 7-9 against the top 100, 2-4 against the top 50, with one bad loss. MSU's resume is better, but not a lot better, and Missouri wasn't almost a consensus on being out, per Bracket Matrix. BYU's this year was also better in every category but bad losses, and they just barely slid into the field.

I have sympathy for MSU for 06-07, but not 10-11.

[BEARZ77]

The 2006-07 was one of the bigger screw jobs ever, the others just years where we were in the running but didn't get the nod, not anything different than what happens to several teams yearly. While you can find "warts" on the 2006-07 resume, what you can't find is any way you can justify Air Force at all in a head to head comparison, and another 2-3 teams we pretty cleanly have better overall credentials as well. What a lot of people overlook is that Creighton also had excellent credentials that year, also better than Air Force and a couple others and the Valley really should have had 6 entries.

But hey, that's history; right now this subject is folly and shouldn't be attributed to the University's Administration, just overzealous fans and posters. Right now I like where MSU is at in relation to what we're trying to get done. We have excellent facilities, a president who is supportive of athletics, a pair of young basketball coaches who are trying to get things done the right way in building their programs. I'm not a huge fan of Lusk from a style of play standpoint, but I do think he is building a solid base for the program with recruiting HS kids and adding a piece here and there via transfers and jucos. Football looks improved , basketball should have a very good year, we have lots of new resources and facilities; I'm not going to try to drag down another University to try to make us look good, but I don't see anyone in the Valley besides WSU sitting in a better spot to build sustained success than us right now.

[Wufan]

I've heard BCS football called Heroin for colleges. The high is so great, but cost to obtain it is even greater. Only the ultra-elite can afford to bury the cost and hide effects, everyone else is just an addict on the edge of losing everything.

[BEARZ77]

Good analogy; never been an advocate of football at this level. But given we seem committed to it, then I expect us to do it as well as we can. Would much rather see the resources go to MBB/WBB, drop football and go with hockey. Hell we came close to a National title in hockey this year at the club level, and we hardly support that all $$$$ wise. Probably draws as many fans as baseball.

[TheAsianSensation]

I think everyone's in agreement about 05-06. What's so infuriating was that everyone focused on the at-large bids from the CAA and MVC and completely ignored the ludicrous at-large bids given to the MWC and WAC that were the real crime. Adding in the seeding issues up and down that bracket; that was the worst bracket of all-time, hands down.

The 10-11 team is more debatable. But, the bottom line is they became the only regular season MVC champs in forever to miss the tournament. Every team to win a regular season title made it to the tournament but them. That's a very hard pill to swallow for a MSU fan. Sure, part of it was their own doing, but the MVC was a bit down that year, failing to support MSU in a way it had supported everyone else. It can leave fans really bitter about a conference, the fact that it was there to help everyone, but when you needed the help suddenly, the conference let you down. Not saying those feelings are justified, but I think (at least for the MSU admins), there's bitter feelings about that.

[rlh04d]

The 10-11 team is more debatable. But, the bottom line is they became the only regular season MVC champs in forever to miss the tournament. Every team to win a regular season title made it to the tournament but them. That's a very hard pill to swallow for a MSU fan. Sure, part of it was their own doing, but the MVC was a bit down that year, failing to support MSU in a way it had supported everyone else. It can leave fans really bitter about a conference, the fact that it was there to help everyone, but when you needed the help suddenly, the conference let you down. Not saying those feelings are justified, but I think (at least for the MSU admins), there's bitter feelings about that.

It's the MVC's fault that Missouri State scheduled a 201 non-con SOS and still went 8-4 against it, including 0-3 against RPI top 100 teams?

I think you're looking at this backwards: the only reason MSU won the regular season title is due to the Valley being down. That wasn't a great MSU team that got robbed by a down Valley. It was a good MSU team that shot themselves in the foot in the noncon and the MVC wasn't good enough to bail them out of the situation they put themselves in. But you have to look at the individual team before you look at the conference. If the team isn't controlling what they can control, it's their fault.

MSU's administration let their team down in 2010-11. And they've learned their lesson since then, as their worst non-con SOS since that year has been 109.

I'm sure there are bitter feelings about it from their admin. It's easier to blame others. But Wichita State and Indiana State didn't tell MSU to schedule 8 150+ RPI teams out of conference.

Creighton missed the tourney in 2008-09 after a share of the regular season title. Creighton that year had a much better resume than MSU the next year, too.