#8 Wichita St at #25 Utah - ESPN2 10pm

[rlh04d]

If your argument is that Utah had a better front court than us, then I agree. If you think WSU has a "recruiting hole" because we didn't land a projected NBA lottery pick 7-footer, 340+ other teams have this "hole" on their roster.

This. Although Aargh clearly doesn't know what his argument is, he just knows that whatever it is, he's right.

Poeltl was clearly the best post player in that game. By a mile. And likely one of the best five in college basketball.

And he played 36 minutes, and was still held to the same points total that he has averaged with just 24 minutes against other competition, 8 of those 12 in one quick burst at the start of the game where the pick and roll worked repeatedly. That was fixed and he scored 3 points the rest of the game, all FTs. Now he did have 11 rebounds, and absolutely killed us on that end ... but still, at the end of the game, we had a 3 rebound discrepancy on the road to a team with an NBA 7'. Our bigs clearly aren't as talented, but they did surprisingly well. And you can complain about Wessel being our leading rebounder, but he nearly was the GAME leading rebounder, against a 7' NBA prospect who played six more minutes.

We lost a game that we absolutely should have won because Carter couldn't stay out of foul trouble, yet again, and FVV's shots wouldn't fall. And still, we lost by one point on the road to a ranked team in a great atmosphere, where the difference in the game just as easily could be explained by a made 3PT shot by Utah that bounced off the back of the rim, shot 10 feet into the air, and dropped back into the basket. Or Baker somehow missing a two-handed dunk. (Although Utah's terrible FT shooting did a good job of negating the foul discrepancy.)

We've definitely got some issues ... but thinking back on the game, I'm surprised by how well our bigs played defensively. At some point they just have to learn how to play offensively, otherwise this strategy of locking down Baker/FVV/Cotton and daring the rest of the team to beat them will work again.

Carter fouling out in only 17 minutes, though ... that's awful, and has to be fixed ASAP. We have to have him on the court.

[glm38]

I don't see a "recruiting hole" for the Shockers. But I don't think there's much doubt the Shockers are lacking frontcourt size and production they've had the past couple of years. I don't think that will be much problem in the Valley except possibly against UNI. But I'm not sure the Shox can make a tournament run without some more size and production up front? They really need some of their bigs besides Carter to develop by tournament time.

Shockers are still a very good team and the class of the Valley. But the bar has been set very very high the last few years. Hopefully Burger, Bush, Shaq or someone else steps up by the end of the year.

[ShoxNAwe]

It's really a matter of production, not size. All the guys with size are newcomers. That takes time.

[rlh04d]

I don't see a "recruiting hole" for the Shockers. But I don't think there's much doubt the Shockers are lacking frontcourt size and production they've had the past couple of years. I don't think that will be much problem in the Valley except possibly against UNI. But I'm not sure the Shox can make a tournament run without some more size and production up front? They really need some of their bigs besides Carter to develop by tournament time.

Shockers are still a very good team and the class of the Valley. But the bar has been set very very high the last few years. Hopefully Burger, Bush, Shaq or someone else steps up by the end of the year.

Yeah, I really don't think the issue is really size. Carl Hall was a pretty undersized 5 (6'6" according to the NBA combine), but he lead us to a Final Four against some much bigger competition. Like I said -- Poeltl is a very talented big, and we should him down offensively (after that string of pick and rolls early), with mostly newcomers. Carter also had no issue at all scoring in the post when he was on the floor.

I think the real issue right now is that our offensive threats are very limited. Wessel's doing much better this year, but he's still not a big offensive threat. Holland is the only offensive threat from our newcomers thus far. Which basically means our entire offense is down to: FVV, Baker, Cotton, and Carter. Carter's been unable to be the defensive presence at the 5 that Hall was, despite being taller, because he fouls too much and takes himself out of the game. At at that point, if any of FVV/Baker/Cotton are having an off-night, a good team can focus on two players on the court and eliminate our offensive production.

We just need more offensive threats. I'm not terribly worried -- it's very early in the season, and we're not going to play a team of Utah's ability until at least UNI. But long term we really need to be in a position where Carter isn't fouling himself out of the game in under 20 minutes, and we have at least one other consistent offensive threat.

[Wufan]

Morris is as much or more of an offensive threat than Holland.

[rlh04d]

Morris is as much or more of an offensive threat than Holland.

Would have been nice if he would have shown it against a team that we desperately needed his help providing interior scoring.

Not only did he not show it, but it was clear the guards didn't particularly trust him to provide it. He's got potential to provide that offensive threat, but 0 points are 0 points.

[Wufan]

I think the real issue right now is that our offensive threats are very limited…Holland is the only offensive threat from our newcomers thus far…We just need more offensive threats.

Stats:

Holland: 13.5 mpg, 4.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.2 apg, 0.6 TOpg
Morris: 12.8 mpg, 4.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.2 apg, 0.7 TOpg

Answer: If Holland, Then Morris.

[SHOXMVC]

I think our newcomer contribution, especially in the front court, will be inconsistent most of the year. The veterans of the group Wessel and Carter are ok (yes, Wessel is an undersized 4 and Carter will get it figured out). That leaves Shaq, Nurger, Kelly, Bush-Wam and Glass. I believe Bush-Wam and Glass will slip into near obscurity, while Shaq, Nurger and Kelly will be the wild cards. Just like last night, Nurger stepped up and looked great. Does that mean he has turned the corner? No...he is an inconsistent freshman. He will be irrelevant in several games going forward. Same with Shaq...same with Kelly. The key will be for the coaching staff to quickly recognize which of these players are the "go-to" each game. Sometimes, like with Nurger last night, it will be easy based on production. His shooting was on, he had assists, a steal, a block and importantly for newcomers no turnovers. This is a talented group, no doubt. You just can't time-warp the learning curve.

[rlh04d]

I think the real issue right now is that our offensive threats are very limited…Holland is the only offensive threat from our newcomers thus far…We just need more offensive threats.

Stats:

Holland: 13.5 mpg, 4.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.2 apg, 0.6 TOpg
Morris: 12.8 mpg, 4.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.2 apg, 0.7 TOpg

Answer: If Holland, Then Morris.

And my only response is that Holland contributed offensively when we needed him, Shaq did not. I'm weighting those stats by opponent more than you are.

[Wufan]

I think the real issue right now is that our offensive threats are very limited…Holland is the only offensive threat from our newcomers thus far…We just need more offensive threats.

Stats:

Holland: 13.5 mpg, 4.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.2 apg, 0.6 TOpg
Morris: 12.8 mpg, 4.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.2 apg, 0.7 TOpg

Answer: If Holland, Then Morris.

And my only response is that Holland contributed offensively when we needed him, Shaq did not. I'm weighting those stats by opponent more than you are.

Got it.