Jan 3rd-4th MVC games

[Cdizzle]

Did I just read DrWu desribe Garrett Stutz as "essentially unstoppable"?

lol, thanks, that was good.

You can have your opinion, and that's fine, but before that game in 2012 Stutz was averaging 16.3ppg and 9.3rpg while shooting 57% from the field. That may not be "essentially unstoppable" but it is definitely closer to it than it is laughable. If you take out the 3 statistical anomalies caused by low playing time and usage in curb stompings during that period the numbers get even better (18.2ppg, 10.4rpg).

[Championz]

Did I just read DrWu desribe Garrett Stutz as "essentially unstoppable"?

lol, thanks, that was good.

Given the statistics cdizzle provided, I don't think it's all that laughable to say the leading scorer on a team that went 16-2 in the conference was essentially unstoppable. Sure doesn't sound like a lot of people could stop him or that team. I suppose it depends on your definition of "essentially unstoppable". What would yours be?

[PantherSigEp]

Some of you argue about the stupidest crap. How in the hell did we even get to this point? Oh yeah, Dan Muller didn't vote for WSU in the preseason and is an infantile fashion mistake. Got it. Next!

[rlh04d]

Marshall leads the all time series with ISUr 10-5...a 67% win %. If the Yankees winning 54% is owning, what does that make 67%


Including this year WSU is 12-2 in the last 5 years and 18-6 in the last 10 years against ISUr

You're right...WSU/ISUr isn't a rivalry

The numbers for Marshall don't make sense. Your second number contradicts your first. My count is 13-5.

Doesn't matter though. At the end of the day, when you pick your team first, you should probably not find yourself 2 games back and down a head-to-head 2 games in. Not really a championship-caliber start. I mean, I don't know if people know this, or Muller specifically, but WSU has won the league championship (the real one decided by games played) twice in the last 3 years, with a COMBINED number of losses equal to the current season's conference loss tally for ISUr.

I broke it down. Marshall is 13-5 against Illinois State in general, WSU has won 12 of the last 13, and is 6-0 versus Muller.

2014-15: 1-0
2013-14: 2-0
2012-13: 3-0
2011-12: 2-1
2010-11: 2-0
2009-10: 2-1
2008-09: 1-1
2007-08: 0-2

I definitely get the feeling that Illinois State could be WSU's rival if they continue to get better. Generally a rivalry is fueled by the fans and IlSU fans, for whatever reason, seem to be the only fanbase that has a hard-on against WSU specifically. Which is odd given that 127% of this conference is from their home state and they have natural rivals. Most of this is generated by jealousy, which is fine ... that's a perfectly acceptable excuse for a rivalry.

But yeah ... talking about the all-time history between the Red Sox and the Yankees is silly, because those two teams have always been rivals. There is a century of history between them. WSU and Illinois State have never been rivals, and to try to generate a rivalry now, with WSU winning 12 of the last 13 games (which includes every moment that could be used to generate a rivalry -- the St. Louis loss/technical fouls, the karate kick/phenomenal WSU comeback, coaching conflicts, etc.), just comes across flat. Hell, WSU hasn't lost a road game @IlSU in over five years (Dec 29, 2009).

But Illinois State is on the way up, and with those fan feelings it would turn into a rivalry quickly if their games are deciding who wins the Valley, with IlSU winning nearly as many as they lose.

[rlh04d]

Wow!!! Some fans!!!

I can remember Wichita fans getting so upset cause Creighton wouldn't consider Wichita a rival.

Anyway, I'm glad some cherry picked certain date ranges that skewed the results in Wichita's favor but then would mention Cubs and Yankees all time series record.

All time series record
Wichita 39 wins
Illinois St 37

The point is that WSU and Illinois State have no natural rivalry. There was no rivalry throughout their "all time series", so trying to create one now means that all time series is pointless.

Loyola's new. They need a rival. They're 14-23 against Evansville. Congrats, you're now Loyola's rival.

You don't just go grab a sports history book, find a team you're close to .500 against all time, and proclaim it a rivalry.

Your point about Creighton isn't a bad one ... we were on the other side of this once. WSU fans wanted Creighton to be a rival, and for a long time we didn't have the performance against them to make it one. Fans trying to prematurely proclaim it one were rightly laughed at. That probably didn't actually become a rivalry until sometime around the 2005-2006 season ... Tulsa was our rival prior to '96, and we weren't good enough to be rivals with anyone for a while. Starting with the 2005-2006 season, WSU went 8-9 against Creighton, both teams swept the other only once, each team won the regular season title twice, WSU had three second place finishes while Creighton had two, and in six of those eight seasons both teams were top five.

That's what created a rivalry between Creighton and WSU before they left. The game outcomes were even, they were well played, they had meaning (the conference championship hinged on them), there was geographic logic, the fans disliked one another, and both teams had logical and credible bragging points/shots to take at each other (Creighton on winning in St. Louis, WSU on winning in the NCAA tournament).

[jwa123]

As an ISUr fan, I do not consider WSU as a rival. Bradley is our rival and it is a healthy and amiable rivalry. I don't know what will happen with Ford but even my own wife says it's hard to root against Bradley these days as Geno is such a nice guy and hopes that he will succeed at Bradley

There is a lot of animosity between factions for WSU and ISUr. That stems I feel from the fact that many WSU fans don't like Dan Muller and many ISU fans don't like Greg Marshall. Even some WSU fans admit that Marshall can be a little pissy at times and does not have an outgoing personality. If both schools had different coaches this back and forth between the factions most likely would not have occurred.

I've said it before and I will say it again but I've been around WSU fans that were classy people to be around. Those kind of people are at ISUr as well.

[COUTEAU]

Wow!!! Some fans!!!

I can remember Wichita fans getting so upset cause Creighton wouldn't consider Wichita a rival.

Anyway, I'm glad some cherry picked certain date ranges that skewed the results in Wichita's favor but then would mention Cubs and Yankees all time series record.

All time series record
Wichita 39 wins
Illinois St 37

Loyola's new. They need a rival. They're 14-23 against Evansville. Congrats, you're now Loyola's rival.
There were some epic battles, back in the early eighties.

The ACES and RAMBLERS have history going back to the old MCC years.
Both schools, were charter members, along with Butler, Oklahoma City, Oral Roberts and Xavier.

[rlh04d]

As an ISUr fan, I do not consider WSU as a rival. Bradley is our rival and it is a healthy and amiable rivalry. I don't know what will happen with Ford but even my own wife says it's hard to root against Bradley these days as Geno is such a nice guy and hopes that he will succeed at Bradley

There is a lot of animosity between factions for WSU and ISUr. That stems I feel from the fact that many WSU fans don't like Dan Muller and many ISU fans don't like Greg Marshall. Even some WSU fans admit that Marshall can be a little pissy at times and does not have an outgoing personality. If both schools had different coaches this back and forth between the factions most likely would not have occurred.

I've said it before and I will say it again but I've been around WSU fans that were classy people to be around. Those kind of people are at ISUr as well.

Do WSU fans have a problem with Muller?

WSU fans disliked Dana Ford, and that seemed to be what caused problems between the teams. I've seen WSU fans take shots at Muller (particularly the criminal history of the team under him, his 0-6 record against WSU, the silly first-place-prediction thing this year, and one or twice that comment about him whining too much), but I don't get the feeling that there's a real problem with Muller. He seems to be a good coach. The Valley needs more of those.

I didn't like the Jank/Ford coaching staff. Muller I'm fine with. I even kind of like him. Solid young coach working for his alma mater ... he's going to take some lumps, but he's new as a head coach, and seems to be learning quickly.

[rlh04d]

Wow!!! Some fans!!!

I can remember Wichita fans getting so upset cause Creighton wouldn't consider Wichita a rival.

Anyway, I'm glad some cherry picked certain date ranges that skewed the results in Wichita's favor but then would mention Cubs and Yankees all time series record.

All time series record
Wichita 39 wins
Illinois St 37

Loyola's new. They need a rival. They're 14-23 against Evansville. Congrats, you're now Loyola's rival.
There were some epic battles, back in the early eighties.

The ACES and RAMBLERS have history going back to the old MCC years.
Both schools, were charter members, along with Butler, Oklahoma City, Oral Roberts and Xavier.

I look forward to seeing future meetings in this epic rivalry.

[jwa123]

I know Ford leaving is a sore point for a lot of WSU fans and frankly I don't get it. I will admit I see it from a different angle than the WSU fans and I could be all wet. I am more of a Chicago Bears fan than anything else and they are in the process of hiring a GM and then a new head coach. They are asking permission of the other teams if they can talk to their personnel before inviting them to Chicago for an interview. Maybe this is the problem in that Muller didn't ask for permission?

From where I sit it seemed like a good move for Dana career wise. He was what about the 3rd assistant at WSU and at ISUr he was immediately assistant head coach and Dan Mullers lead assistant. If he had stayed at WSU he most likely would not be a head coach anywhere like he is now. I was disappointed when he left ISUr but was happy for him getting a shot at being a head coach. What's wrong with an individual bettering his situation? Also, Dana was returning to his alma mater.

I know I don't see both sides of the issue but I don't get it when folks get mad because someone wants to better themselves.

By the way, Dana Ford was not an assistant for Tim Jankovich.