2015 MVCfans.com - post season awards and honors

[rlh04d]

Ben Jacobson is the 2015 MVC Coach of the Year. His third time (previously in 2009 & 2010).

Jacobson's officially not considered Marshall's peer, then. He's judged on "little engine that could" criteria the same way Moser or Lusk would be.

Every argument for Jacobson begins and ends with "he did a shitty job last year, so he looks better in comparison this year."

What a strange conclusion to draw.

He goes 27-3, wins COY, and somehow thats an indictment?

It's an indictment because he won the award without winning the conference.

I've already pointed out in the past that since 1997, the winner of the conference wins the COY award almost exclusively. Two exceptions in nearly 20 years.

For Marshall not to win the award with a 16-1 record and one of the best MVC conference performances of all time is absolutely an indictment on Jacobson. It says that he did good enough, and no one really expects him to actually compete with Marshall anyway.

It's an expectations thing. Marshall's talent is factored into his expectations, and because Jacobson has lower expectations, he is credited more for performing well. Not as well as Marshall, but "good enough." It's like giving Moser the award for finishing several spots better than one could realistically expect from "that program" with "that coach."

Jacobson had an upper-classmen heavy team and failed to win the conference. Marshall had 8 newcomers on this year's team and finished with one of the best performances of all time.

None of that discredits Jacobson's performance. He did a fantastic job. However, no question, he did not do a better job than Marshall, and giving him an award for finishing second is a patronizing pat on the head to a coach who is too good for such platitudes.

[rlh04d]

I hate to "punish" Porter Moser for Doyle's injury but I have a feeling had he been healthy all year and Loyola pulled the 3 or 4 seed he would have been COY.

And that's a great example of why giving COY to a coach for exceeding expectations is silly. Give it to the winner of the conference and leave it at that.

Moser's 4-7 record without Doyle (and all four against Thursday night teams) perfectly shows that Loyola's success was due to Doyle, not due to Moser. But yeah, if Doyle hadn't gotten hurt, Moser would have gotten the credit for it. Credit that he as a coach did not deserve, but based on this silly "well relative to expectations ..." criteria people want to use, he would have won the award.

[rlh04d]

HCGM could have won and no one one would have bitched.

That's because he rightfully deserved the award.

Boom.

Jacobson led a UNI team that was without a single vote in the preseason poll into the AP Top 10.

Whatever you think must be true. And the people that voted have clearly have no idea and are biased against you right? Seems like the Wichita way of thinking.

Basing Coach of the Year on performance relative to expectations is absurd.

Jacobson is the reason his expectations were lower. Marshall is the reason his expectations were higher.

Neither faced extenuating circumstances. Jacobson created lower expectations and then got rewarded for exceeding them. Marshall created higher expectations and was punished for meeting them.

Marshall won the conference and went 16-1, one of the greatest conference records of all time, and Jacobson won COY because he did almost as good and sucked last year.

IMO, at best it's a lack of understanding about how much expectations should matter in evaluating the performance of a long-term coach, and at worst it's a patronizing insult to Jacobson for doing "good enough" against Marshall, who is recognized as being out of everyone else's league.

[Cdizzle]

It's an indictment because he won the award without winning the conference.

I've already pointed out in the past that since 1997, the winner of the conference wins the COY award almost exclusively. Two exceptions in nearly 20 years.

For Marshall not to win the award with a 16-1 record and one of the best MVC conference performances of all time is absolutely an indictment on Jacobson. It says that he did good enough, and no one really expects him to actually compete with Marshall anyway.

It's an expectations thing. Marshall's talent is factored into his expectations, and because Jacobson has lower expectations, he is credited more for performing well. Not as well as Marshall, but "good enough." It's like giving Moser the award for finishing several spots better than one could realistically expect from "that program" with "that coach."

Jacobson had an upper-classmen heavy team and failed to win the conference. Marshall had 8 newcomers on this year's team and finished with one of the best performances of all time.

None of that discredits Jacobson's performance. He did a fantastic job. However, no question, he did not do a better job than Marshall, and giving him an award for finishing second is a patronizing pat on the head to a coach who is too good for such platitudes.

Allow me to drop the mic for you.

[Cdizzle]

[
Basing Coach of the Year on performance relative to expectations is absurd.

Jacobson is the reason his expectations were lower. Marshall is the reason his expectations were higher.

Neither faced extenuating circumstances. Jacobson created lower expectations and then got rewarded for exceeding them. Marshall created higher expectations and was punished for meeting them.

Marshall won the conference and went 16-1, one of the greatest conference records of all time, and Jacobson won COY because he did almost as good and sucked last year.

IMO, at best it's a lack of understanding about how much expectations should matter in evaluating the performance of a long-term coach, and at worst it's a patronizing insult to Jacobson for doing "good enough" against Marshall, who is recognized as being out of everyone else's league.

I dropped the mic for you prematurely. Allow me to pick it back up, hand it back to you, and then drop it again.

[UNIFanSince1983]

So much salt in here.

[rlh04d]

So much salt in here.

My point was made before the award was named repeatedly.

Not one UNI fan can make an argument for Jacobson winning this award that doesn't entirely rely on his admission that he did a bad job last year. I'd love to hear any UNI fan argue a case for him that isn't based on low expectations that he set by failing last year.

But when every argument is based on performance relative to preseason voting, when Jacobson himself has argued that he did a poor job last year and preseason expectations are based on past performance, that's not an argument for Coach of the Year. That's an argument for "boy, it's sure swell that Moser got Loyola all the way to 6th place!"

End of the day, awards voting is silly, but I have a problem with people continuing to fail to recognize how little "preseason expectations" should matter in something like this. Ben Jacobson has been at UNI for nine years -- there is not one expectation on that program that he is not responsible for.

Congratulations to Ben Jacobson, Most Improved Coach of the Year, and second best coach in the conference, though

[bigdawg]

Save your venom for the people that actually voted for Ben instead of constantly spewing your crap here. Seriously email the voters and tell them they are wrong. We get it you think Gregg should have won. If he had I'd have been okay with that. But rehashing your argument a hundred times on a message board is pretty lame.

[UNIFanSince1983]

So much salt in here.

My point was made before the award was named repeatedly.

Not one UNI fan can make an argument for Jacobson winning this award that doesn't entirely rely on his admission that he did a bad job last year. I'd love to hear any UNI fan argue a case for him that isn't based on low expectations that he set by failing last year.

But when every argument is based on performance relative to preseason voting, when Jacobson himself has argued that he did a poor job last year and preseason expectations are based on past performance, that's not an argument for Coach of the Year. That's an argument for "boy, it's sure swell that Moser got Loyola all the way to 6th place!"

End of the day, awards voting is silly, but I have a problem with people continuing to fail to recognize how little "preseason expectations" should matter in something like this. Ben Jacobson has been at UNI for nine years -- there is not one expectation on that program that he is not responsible for.

Congratulations to Ben Jacobson, Most Improved Coach of the Year, and second best coach in the conference, though

Right or wrong everyone is judged based on expectations. Not just in coaching. It is always their fault on how high or low those expectations are. If you get your expectations set too high it is harder to exceed them, and harder to get recognized.

There were still high expectations this year for UNI. We were picked 2nd in the conference. Had there been a little more separation between UNI in 2nd and WSU in 1st then Marshall runs away with it. Like had we finished 2nd with like 5 conference losses there is no chance Jacobson beats out Marshall. It had everything to do with the fact that no one expected us to be quite this good. No one thought anyone could challenge WSU (except Muller), but that is exactly what we did.

I do get what you are saying though. Marshall is being punished by setting the bar too high.

[valleychamp]

It's an indictment because he won the award without winning the conference.

I've already pointed out in the past that since 1997, the winner of the conference wins the COY award almost exclusively. Two exceptions in nearly 20 years.

For Marshall not to win the award with a 16-1 record and one of the best MVC conference performances of all time is absolutely an indictment on Jacobson. It says that he did good enough, and no one really expects him to actually compete with Marshall anyway.

It's an expectations thing. Marshall's talent is factored into his expectations, and because Jacobson has lower expectations, he is credited more for performing well. Not as well as Marshall, but "good enough." It's like giving Moser the award for finishing several spots better than one could realistically expect from "that program" with "that coach."

Jacobson had an upper-classmen heavy team and failed to win the conference. Marshall had 8 newcomers on this year's team and finished with one of the best performances of all time.

None of that discredits Jacobson's performance. He did a fantastic job. However, no question, he did not do a better job than Marshall, and giving him an award for finishing second is a patronizing pat on the head to a coach who is too good for such platitudes.

Gregg Marshall won COY in 2013 with a 2nd place finish.

I'd bet you didn't post this same ridiculous rant back then that Gregg did not measure up to McDermott.

Let me guess, that was different.