2015 MVCfans.com - post season awards and honors

[rlh04d]

That Creighton team only had 1 All American....this WSU has 2

So Jacobson's coaching performance is lessened in your mind because Tuttle won the MVC Player of the Year and is up for National Player of the Year?

Recruiting and player development? Part of what you evaluate a collegiate head coach on. That's about two-thirds of the major criteria.

[rlh04d]

I specifically said that I thought Marshall only won it that year because Creighton was leaving the conference and the voters penalized McDermott as COY because of it.

Yeah, like I thought, that was different.

Reading comprehension. You lack it.

I can point to four different posts on here and ShockerNet where I've said that Marshall didn't deserve the award that year if you'd like -- above is #5. You're barking up the wrong tree there.

[rlh04d]

Right or wrong everyone is judged based on expectations. Not just in coaching. It is always their fault on how high or low those expectations are. If you get your expectations set too high it is harder to exceed them, and harder to get recognized.

There were still high expectations this year for UNI. We were picked 2nd in the conference. Had there been a little more separation between UNI in 2nd and WSU in 1st then Marshall runs away with it. Like had we finished 2nd with like 5 conference losses there is no chance Jacobson beats out Marshall. It had everything to do with the fact that no one expected us to be quite this good. No one thought anyone could challenge WSU (except Muller), but that is exactly what we did.

I do get what you are saying though. Marshall is being punished by setting the bar too high.

Well said, and thank you for being the only one that wants to have a rational conversation on this

I'm all for acknowledging UNI's tremendous year, and Jacobson's tremendous coaching performance. However, I fundamentally disagree with basing an award relative to last year's performance. We don't do that with any award except coaching, and I completely disagree with that type of thinking, regardless of what coach should win the award.

I understand why people who believe that "relative to expectations" is an important criteria would give the award to Jacobson, but I can't grasp why people would believe that. And it seems to be a common thought process here as well -- to the point that someone seriously just argued that Moser should get Coach of the Year for getting Loyola to 6th place.

However, Jacobson winning the award is the most acceptable "relative to expectations" award recipient I could ever imagine. By all means, if UNI had beat Evansville, he would have been my choice for COY.

[valleychamp]

So, if UNI would have hit ONE more shot in that ONE game, Coach Jake would "clearly" be your choice? Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Its a 35 game season and your COY choice is decided by a single play.

You think weighing expectations is wrong, but picking a winner strictly by the standings is even dumber. Its a subjective award.

[SHOXMVC]

I don't have any issues with Jake winning the award, although Marshall winning it would not have been a stretch to ANYONE.

I am not in the camp that winning a conference championship should guarantee this award. If so, why even have an award.

I am ok with components of winning it consist of a series of reasonable expectations coming into the season. If one makes the case UNI was not in the conversation of worthiness in the pre-season top-25 and finishes 11th, 15th or 20th for that matter, that would impress me as a coach exceeding expectations. WSU was generally perceived as a top-10 type of team coming into the year. When the award was handed out, we were 8. If a voter punches his/her ballot with this in mind, so be it.

I think most reasonable fans and experts expected the Shockers to win the MVC by more than 1 game. Congrats to UNI for stepping up this year. Again, I have no issues with Jake winning. Individual awards are fine and good, but it's all about advancing deep in the dance. Continue the spirited debate.

[rlh04d]

So, if UNI would have hit ONE more shot in that ONE game, Coach Jake would "clearly" be your choice? Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Its a 35 game season and your COY choice is decided by a single play.

You think weighing expectations is wrong, but picking a winner strictly by the standings is even dumber. Its a subjective award.

Yes. In sports, winning and losing matters. One play is often the difference between winning and losing. One play cost you a share of the Valley regular season championship, didn't it? Is that "dumb" ? Should we say "well, they only lost by one shot, so it's close enough -- give them a share of the championship" ? Picking a conference champion strictly by the standings is so "dumb."

Seriously, what do you want to determine Coach of the Year on?

I've asked several times for anyone to make an argument for Jacobson to win the award that isn't based on last year, and no one has, subjective or otherwise. You tried, and two-thirds of your criteria included Jacobson being inferior to Marshall, by a simple comparison of numbers. Are you going to make another go of it?

Jacobson is responsible for every aspect of the UNI program -- he recruited and developed every player on the roster. What other than winning the conference is fair to judge him on at this point? There are no extenuating circumstances here. He's responsible for his team's poor performance last year, so he doesn't get extra credit for how bad he did last year.

[rlh04d]

If one makes the case UNI was not in the conversation of worthiness in the pre-season top-25 and finishes 11th, 15th or 20th for that matter, that would impress me as a coach exceeding expectations.

I would never argue that Coach Jacobson didn't exceed my expectations.

My argument is that Coach Jacobson's expectations were lowered by what he himself admitted was poor coaching last year.

If UNI went 28-2 in the regular season last year only losing two games to an undefeated WSU, Jacobson does not win COY this year.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Why are you still arguing this? You aren't going to get UNI fans to say Jacobson didn't deserve it. You aren't going to see UNI fans apologize for him winning the award. And as much as you want it to it won't change that Jacobson won it this year. And no one on here has a vote so you aren't even aiming you anger at the right place. I suggest you just tip back a cold one, and enjoy the great season WSU is in the middle of right now. It is Arch Maddness time be happy! In the end you guys have the important award which is the conference championship.

[rlh04d]

Why are you still arguing this? You aren't going to get UNI fans to say Jacobson didn't deserve it. You aren't going to see UNI fans apologize for him winning the award. And as much as you want it to it won't change that Jacobson won it this year. And no one on here has a vote so you aren't even aiming you anger at the right place. I suggest you just tip back a cold one, and enjoy the great season WSU is in the middle of right now. It is Arch Maddness time be happy! In the end you guys have the important award which is the conference championship.

Because it's Thursday night, my team isn't playing, and I'm snowed into my house after having work canceled and going stir-crazy.

There's no anger in any of my posts. Just strong disagreement.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Why are you still arguing this? You aren't going to get UNI fans to say Jacobson didn't deserve it. You aren't going to see UNI fans apologize for him winning the award. And as much as you want it to it won't change that Jacobson won it this year. And no one on here has a vote so you aren't even aiming you anger at the right place. I suggest you just tip back a cold one, and enjoy the great season WSU is in the middle of right now. It is Arch Maddness time be happy! In the end you guys have the important award which is the conference championship.

Because it's Thursday night, my team isn't playing, and I'm snowed into my house after having work canceled and going stir-crazy.

There's no anger in any of my posts. Just strong disagreement.

Haha alright well I guess good point. Getting snowed in is never a fun time, and Thursday night of Arch Madness is always rough!