Most Disliked Valley Coach

[March]

I don't really dislike any of them. If I have to pick, Marshall is coach I dislike the most simply because he is a rival. He's also the coach I admire the most because of the way he turned two programs around. His presence at WSU has been great for the Valley, and I hope he sticks around.

Muller was on the Dean's List every year in Normal, so it makes sense that he holds his players to high standards. I got the impression a lot of his players didn't handle it well, and that may have factored a bit into a few of their several transfers. If not the most disliked coach in the valley, I think he might be the most disliked among his own players.

[rlh04d]

Yup, does that answer your snarky questions?

Come on, rlh. I typically enjoy your posts but stop acting like you know everything that goes on at Illinois State and quit categorizing a bunch of college aged kids as horrible human beings. It's disturbing.

I did no such thing. I never called any player at IlSt a horrible human being. My point was that a valuable player at Illinois State did a terrible thing and was not punished for it by Muller.

Say what you want about him learning his lesson, but Muller did not hold him accountable. And that flies in the face of literally saying the words "Muller holds his players accountable." In that situation he didn't. In his three years as a head coach, that was the single biggest incident he has had to deal with, with the single best player he had to deal with, and he simply did not hold him accountable.

[Redbird Recon]

Sounds like last year's SIU roster would vote for Hinson.
Bad moves for the Salukis and The Valley.

[Bmarq04]

Yup, does that answer your snarky questions?

Come on, rlh. I typically enjoy your posts but stop acting like you know everything that goes on at Illinois State and quit categorizing a bunch of college aged kids as horrible human beings. It's disturbing.

I did no such thing. I never called any player at IlSt a horrible human being. My point was that a valuable player at Illinois State did a terrible thing and was not punished for it by Muller.

Say what you want about him learning his lesson, but Muller did not hold him accountable. And that flies in the face of literally saying the words "Muller holds his players accountable." In that situation he didn't. In his three years as a head coach, that was the single biggest incident he has had to deal with, with the single best player he had to deal with, and he simply did not hold him accountable.

Since the issue with Knight, Muller has been very consistent with his standards.

Even as a Redbird fan, I expected and wanted more punishment for Knight. If, and it's a big if, there were circumstances that were not released that justified the soft punishment, I was never privy to them.

As disappointed as I was with how that was handled, I have been very pleased with how he's handled players since. Looking back I just chalk up the Knight incident as a young coach who made a mistake in how he handled that player. I believe the Muller in place now would have handled it differently.

[rlh04d]

As for keeping kids accountable, Middlebrooks didn't do what he needed to in the classroom so he didn't play, Lofton was a cancer to the team so he didn't play, Ransom broke team violations suspended. Dan runs a tight ship and if you aren't putting in the effort in practice and being a good teammate u won't play. As for actions that are positive here's a good story that came about from one of the charity events the team did in the summer. http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/colleg ... ee41c.html
The team does many events with local schools, talking to kids and hanging out with them at recess or such to make their days and be role models. Going on a water walk to raise money for people in Africa etc. Have actually talked to guys on the team and they've even said that they have grown a lot as a person under Muller. Not exactly a team of thugs and "questionable characters" that they're made out to be besides those few headcases.

1) Muller does not make the decision about whether a player is academically ineligible or not. He doesn't get credit for Middlebrooks being unable to play. That's a decision above his level. Secondly, Middlebrooks wasn't exactly a major contributor.

2) Lofton was suspended for the CBI, which is one small step above exhibition games. But, granted, he was a valuable player and was suspended.

3) Ransom averaged 1.3 points.

My point is, it's pretty easy to hold bench players accountable. Your actions towards your star players who screw up actually show what you value, because punishing them means you're hurting your own interest of winning. Which means the only two decisions Muller has made that matter to me are Lofton and Knight.

As for the feel-good stories, I take that back. That's awesome to see.

[rlh04d]

Since the issue with Knight, Muller has been very consistent with his standards.

Even as a Redbird fan, I expected and wanted more punishment for Knight. If, and it's a big if, there were circumstances that were not released that justified the soft punishment, I was never privy to them.

As disappointed as I was with how that was handled, I have been very pleased with how he's handled players since. Looking back I just chalk up the Knight incident as a young coach who made a mistake in how he handled that player. I believe the Muller in place now would have handled it differently.

I think that's a very fair take.

But, like I said above, until I see star players suspended in games that will hurt the coach's own interests, I generally don't buy it.

[Redbird Recon]

Secondly, Middlebrooks wasn't exactly a major contributor.

He was our best rebounder last year. He would have been our best rebounder this year. Athletically, he was a freak. He was averaging 25 mpg 4 games into his D1 college career.

Also, Muller suspended MM before he was officially ruled ineligible. He was suspended by Muller for an entire month before he was officially ineligible with the NCAA.

[rlh04d]

Secondly, Middlebrooks wasn't exactly a major contributor.

He was our best rebounder last year. He would have been our best rebounder this year. Athletically, he was a freak. He was averaging 25 mpg 4 games into his D1 college career.

Also, Muller suspended MM before he was officially ruled ineligible. He was suspended by Muller for an entire month before he was officially ineligible with the NCAA.

You're right. Scratch that, he was definitely a major contributor.

Still, his problem was academic and that's beyond Muller's control.

[Bmarq04]

Since the issue with Knight, Muller has been very consistent with his standards.

Even as a Redbird fan, I expected and wanted more punishment for Knight. If, and it's a big if, there were circumstances that were not released that justified the soft punishment, I was never privy to them.

As disappointed as I was with how that was handled, I have been very pleased with how he's handled players since. Looking back I just chalk up the Knight incident as a young coach who made a mistake in how he handled that player. I believe the Muller in place now would have handled it differently.

I think that's a very fair take.

But, like I said above, until I see star players suspended in games that will hurt the coach's own interests, I generally don't buy it.

Muller pulled Lofton out for games last year. I think he even didn't let him travel for whatever end of season tournament we were in. Pretty sure Lofton was suspended for a couple regular season games too. And that was just for detriment to the team stuff.

There haven't been other legal issues since Knight so we don't know how he'll handle those. Hopefully we don't have to find out.

[rlh04d]

Muller pulled Lofton out for games last year. I think he even didn't let him travel for whatever end of season tournament we were in. Pretty sure Lofton was suspended for a couple regular season games too. And that was just for detriment to the team stuff.

There haven't been other legal issues since Knight so we don't know how he'll handle those. Hopefully we don't have to find out.

Lofton played in every game but the CBI. Which, like I said, is barely above exhibition games for how much they matter to a coach's interests.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean this as just trashing Muller. I'm not sure if other Valley coaches have had to deal with a similar decision on how to punish a star for legal trouble. I don't recall Marshall having to, so I can't realistically say he would have done it better.

My only point is that in the one big incident where Muller seemingly needed to hold someone accountable, he didn't, and yet he's being praised for holding players accountable in this thread. That's not the case. Best case scenario, he's 50/50 with holding players accountable. That's not praise-worthy. It's not something I would particularly attack him over either, just don't praise him for it.