MVC non conference '16-'17 schedules being released

[UEACES80]

Well said Ace75 - if you aren't UNI or WSU you do seem to catch a lot of flak on here. They seem to want the proverbial cake and eat it too. If there were 4 to 6 good teams a year in the MVC they would be missing the days of being at the top and not challenged too much. Though they say that they would like it and want that - it would piss them off to a certain extent to be pushed harder and sometimes not be in the Top 2 or 3. Just like the Washpun shot finding a way to get into the basket last year pissed off most UE fans and disappointed us. As that would have done the UE program a lot of good to have been in the NCAA.

I understand with Conference Rivals it can be hard to be humble but come tourney time and in the off-season it shouldn't be difficult.

In closing I tip my cap to both UNI and WSU for what they have built in Hoops - what they need to understand is that the fans of all the other schools in the MVC want the same thing but their programs haven't found the right mix of players / coaches / fan support and monetary backing to make it happen on a consistent basis.

[havoc]

UNI and Evansville came in at the same time and were both pretty shoddy.

Evansville came to the MVC three years after UNI. In the seven years before joining, UE went to 3 NCAAs and 2 NITs. Hardly shoddy in my eyes but to each his own.

On top of all of that UE is notorious for playing horse crap OOC schedules to boost win totals. That's not a slam, that's a damn fact.

Funny, here I though the Evansville was notorious for laying an egg in the OCC and then beating teams that thought they were decent in conference. Evansville is regularly used as a verb around here, but I guess its whatever fits your agenda this week.

Rather than schedule weak they invested in the program and look what's happened.

Easy partner. UNI has had a very successful decade plus, but let's make sure our history is correct. UNI didn't decide one day basketball was going to become a priority and started throwing money at it. The last two coaches had exactly zero D1 experience as a head coach in D1; with the last having no head coaching experience. Those aren't typically expensive hires. Yes, they have paid Jacobson after some success, but it was success then invest, not the other way around.

That same thing is what MSU is doing this year. Lusk needs wins to try to keep fans on his side. Best way to do it? Do what Marty does and schedule as many sub 200s as possible and hope he's able to sell the idea of "look how many wins we had" to his fans and they ignore the SOS behind it.

[Wufan]

Glad to see some Aces with spirit on this board! For those looking for WSU and UNI to be humbled, you should have been on the old board when SIU was top dog for a decade. My goodness! WSU, along with UNI and UE were not particularly good at that time. Anyways, all shots aside, no one has ever asked a lower team to lay down for a better team. What is consistently requested (what we would like to see) is a successful non-con by all. If you aren't successful in the non-con, then no one will route for you to do well on the conference.

[glm38]

Just a pathetic OOC schedule for the Bears this coming year. It's a shame too because I feel this is our most talented team in years. We won't know how good we are until we start playing in the conference and even if we do make a run and finish top 2 we likely won't get a ncaa bid due to the crap OOC.

Embarrassing. But I'm still looking forward to seeing what this team can do.

[uniftw]

Easy partner. UNI has had a very successful decade plus, but let's make sure our history is correct. UNI didn't decide one day basketball was going to become a priority and started throwing money at it. The last two coaches had exactly zero D1 experience as a head coach in D1; with the last having no head coaching experience. Those aren't typically expensive hires. Yes, they have paid Jacobson after some success, but it was success then invest, not the other way around.

Yes, the qualified out of the Midwestern Conference....which had 6 teams....and is no the Horizon. They moved to the MVC and by their second year were under .500 and outside of 99 they've never really had any MVC success. Prior to UNI joining they had just beaten 3 seed Mizzou in the NCAA tournament and had been D1 for only a decade.

UNI managed to get to the NCAA tournament in 04, 05, 06, 09 and 10 with a lower budget. Yes, the budget has exploded since then. UNI saw success and decided "Hey, to stay this good and get better we need to invest". Do you see Evasnville, investing to a deep level moving forward? They just had their most successful 4 year run since the late 80s-early 90s. They are 84-55 the last four years and rather than having reason to believe that success is going to continue we are being told that it's going to get rough for a few years and the coach may be on a hot seat.

I'd love to have 6 teams be legit top 100 teams, even if it meant UNI finishes 5th or 6th because in that case the MVC is getting 3-4 teams in the tournament every freaking year. It means teams are going "We'll challenge ourself to get better and play better OOC schedules". UNI may have had a smaller budget until about 7 years ago, but they always played a stronger OOC and tried to swing above their weight.

That's my frustration. What drove UNI to get better was challenging themselves. Seeing where they stood and striving to get to that level. I see programs in the MVC, especially with the schedule mandate gone, just trying to rack up as many OOC wins against SWAC, MEAC, OVC, etc... teams and then even failing at that sometimes.

It bugs the hell out of me, and it has to WSU fans as well, that Evansville has guys like Colt Ryan, Mock, DJ, etc... and rather than striving to build on it there is a contentment to say "Man, that's good so we'll rack up wins using that".

[havoc]

Yes, the qualified out of the Midwestern Conference....which had 6 teams....and is no the Horizon.

The MCC never had 6 teams. 8 for awhile near the end but never 6.

You are correct, it wasn't the Horizon, it was much better. Near the end when UE was going to the post season the conference was UE, Xavier, Butler, Loyola, Detroit, Saint Louis, and Dayton. LaSalle, Marquette, and Duquense were each around a few years also.

Do you see Evasnville, investing to a deep level moving forward? They just had their most successful 4 year run since the late 80s-early 90s. They are 84-55 the last four years and rather than having reason to believe that success is going to continue we are being told that it's going to get rough for a few years and the coach may be on a hot seat.

In my opinion, Evansville invests about what would be expected for one of the smallest schools to support D1. I don't like it, but it is what it is. They took on a significant increase in rent in the Ford Center and recently completed a $3.6 million practice facility. UE is never going to be an upper level spender in the MVC.

The coach has been on the hot seat for a few years now with many of the fans for various reasons. Yes, the next two years will be pretty lean on wins. They will be telling on where the program actually is.

UNI may have had a smaller budget until about 7 years ago, but they always played a stronger OOC and tried to swing above their weight.

Having two almost locked in games again the two P5 schools in your state certainly didn't hurt. In 2003-2004, UNI played Chicago State (Mid-Con), Butler (Horizon), Louisiana Tech (WAC), Furman (Southern), A non-D1, and Siena (MAAC). Not exactly a murder's row.

It bugs the hell out of me, and it has to WSU fans as well, that Evansville has guys like Colt Ryan, Mock, DJ, etc... and rather than striving to build on it there is a contentment to say "Man, that's good so we'll rack up wins using that".

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any Evansville fans that weren't disappointed with how last year ended. No one is content, but that is the reality as life of a fan of a mid-major school. Everyone in this conference outside of maybe WSU is a Chris Lowery, Steve Merfeld, Mark Phelps, or Geno Ford hire away from derailing their program for many years.

[uniftw]

Yes, the qualified out of the Midwestern Conference....which had 6 teams....and is no the Horizon.

The MCC never had 6 teams. 8 for awhile near the end but never 6. [/quote]
UE's last year - 6 http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/con ... /1994.html
1991-1992 - 6 http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/con ... /1992.html
[/quote]

You are correct, it wasn't the Horizon, it was much better. Near the end when UE was going to the post season the conference was UE, Xavier, Butler, Loyola, Detroit, Saint Louis, and Dayton. LaSalle, Marquette, and Duquense were each around a few years also.

Names like Butler, St Louis and Dayton sound real nice now but at that time? Dayton was 500 or worse the last 80s and early 90s. Hell, they were 4-26 in 1992-93 and didn't win more than 7 games until 1997.
SLU won 5 games in 91-92, 12 games in 92-93
Buter won 18 and 21 games in 90 and 91 but that was sandwhich on both sides by years of sub .500
Playing the name game is a tricky way to retroactively make things sound different.

Do you see Evasnville, investing to a deep level moving forward? They just had their most successful 4 year run since the late 80s-early 90s. They are 84-55 the last four years and rather than having reason to believe that success is going to continue we are being told that it's going to get rough for a few years and the coach may be on a hot seat.

The coach has been on the hot seat for a few years now with many of the fans for various reasons. Yes, the next two years will be pretty lean on wins. They will be telling on where the program actually is.

Marty is entering his 10th year...if you need to get to year 11 of a coach to see where the program is...well...it's not where you want it and that's not a good sign.

Having two almost locked in games again the two P5 schools in your state certainly didn't hurt. In 2003-2004, UNI played Chicago State (Mid-Con), Butler (Horizon), Louisiana Tech (WAC), Furman (Southern), A non-D1, and Siena (MAAC). Not exactly a murder's row.

and that was coming off a year UNI finished in the PIG and was at the end of a run where it was bad at UNI. The 11 years that UNI had been in the MVC before 03/04 UNI had finished with single digit wins 3 times and hadn't had 20 or more wins since 89-90. UNI probably had one of the 4 smallest budgets in the MVC at that point. At some point an athletic department needs to decide what they want to be and how to get there. UE needs to decide if what they've seen from Marty for 9 years now is who they want to be. If it's not then UE needs to figure out how to get to that level.

UNI decided where they wanted to be at that point - McDermott's 3rd year - and look what happened to the scheduling. It ramped up a little under Mac and then under Jake it's...well...great. 9 years into a coach isn't a "we still are feeling the program out" situation. Lusk is in his 6th season. I feel the same about that schedule.

I blame the MVC as much as the teams. There's no conference incentive to actually schedule anyone. Just schedule as many bad teams to get as many wins as possible to brag about win total when talking about if you should keep your job 6-10 years in.

[Dean Wormer]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any Evansville fans that weren't disappointed with how last year ended. No one is content, but that is the reality as life of a fan of a mid-major school. Everyone in this conference outside of maybe WSU is a Chris Lowery, Steve Merfeld, Mark Phelps, or Geno Ford hire away from derailing their program for many years.

The illusions of grandeur that a couple of the UNI fans exhibit are getting old. The last line in this paragraph is dead on. After seeing how far SIU fell after the great run in the 2000's, what in the world do UNI fans think will keep them from a similar fate in a Post-Jacobson time? SIU has a long history of success, going back to at least the Walt Frazier days, had a great run and still saw it all crumble with one bad hire. I would also agree that WSU is probably the only one who is potentially safe with a bad hire, but look how hard it was for them to come back after Randy Smithson.

IMO, UNI may be one of the worst schools in the conference to have as a leader. The upside isn't very up. Last year, they had a top-20 team, and still had mediocre attendance. You take UNI's last 5-7 years and give it to Bradley or Evansville and you would see standing room only for every game. Both have a long history of drawing 10K plus. While neither are huge markets, they are at least mid-sized and can create somewhat of a buzz. The same can be said for Illinois State and MSU. SIU can draw well, despite being in a somewhat smaller market, they have a much longer history of success, and have a gazillion alums in the St. Louis market. What major market is packed with UNI alums? Loyola wouldn't draw large crowds, but you get a top 20 team in a market like Chicago, and yes, there will be some serious national attention.

I have nothing against UNI and I think Jacobson may well be the best X and O coach in the Valley, but the finger wiggling a couple of your fans do at the rest of the conference is a little old.

[havoc]

Names like Butler, St Louis and Dayton sound real nice now but at that time? Dayton was 500 or worse the last 80s and early 90s. Hell, they were 4-26 in 1992-93 and didn't win more than 7 games until 1997.
SLU won 5 games in 91-92, 12 games in 92-93
Buter won 18 and 21 games in 90 and 91 but that was sandwhich on both sides by years of sub .500
Playing the name game is a tricky way to retroactively make things sound different.

My mistake. There were two years with 6. Using the rankings on this site, the MCC was ranked 11, 17, 10, 14, and 13 UE's last 5 years. The MVC by comparison was 13, 13, 17, 13, and 15. No matter what the names look like today versus then, the MCC was very bit as strong, if not stronger than the MVC.

Marty is entering his 10th year...if you need to get to year 11 of a coach to see where the program is...well...it's not where you want it and that's not a good sign.

The last couple years have at least been respectable. Next year (and the year after more so if he makes it there) will tell if that was do to where Marty took the program or simply because of having 3 once in a decade type players at roughly the same time. I'm not sure how saying that is a bad thing. In my opinion, he's done just enough in conference with the resources he's had to make it difficult to fire him. He's not setting the world on fire, but he also hasn't been a dumpster fire.

and that was coming off a year UNI finished in the PIG and was at the end of a run where it was bad at UNI. The 11 years that UNI had been in the MVC before 03/04 UNI had finished with single digit wins 3 times and hadn't had 20 or more wins since 89-90. UNI probably had one of the 4 smallest budgets in the MVC at that point. At some point an athletic department needs to decide what they want to be and how to get there. UE needs to decide if what they've seen from Marty for 9 years now is who they want to be. If it's not then UE needs to figure out how to get to that level.

You had just said "UNI may have had a smaller budget until about 7 years ago, but they always played a stronger OOC and tried to swing above their weight." So now your are saying that's not true?

The next year they played a non-D1, Cincinnati, Loyola, UMKC, UWGB, Wagner, Longwood, Valpo, and Northwestern State. The next year it was Western Carolina, Western Michigan, Non-D1, Loyola, UMKC, Florida AM, Hawaii Pacific, and Dayton. Again, not a lot of schools from peer conferences. It's a decent schedule when you add Iowa and Iowa State, but take out 2 schools and add Purdue, Indiana, or Notre Dame to UE or Indiana State's schedule, and they start to look a whole heck of a lot better most years.

I'm not trying to diminish anything by bring up Iowa/Iowa State, but I think its very relevant when discussing OOC scheduling in this time period.

[unipanther99]

The illusions of grandeur that a couple of the UNI fans exhibit are getting old. The last line in this paragraph is dead on. After seeing how far SIU fell after the great run in the 2000's, what in the world do UNI fans think will keep them from a similar fate in a Post-Jacobson time? SIU has a long history of success, going back to at least the Walt Frazier days, had a great run and still saw it all crumble with one bad hire. I would also agree that WSU is probably the only one who is potentially safe with a bad hire, but look how hard it was for them to come back after Randy Smithson.

SIU's had some good runs, and their last one was REALLY good, but it lasted 6 years. I certainly think it's possible UNI could stumble in the future. But we've been either solid or good for over 12 years now, with two different coaches. The last time UNI was in a play-in game, Bruce Webber was still coaching SIU.

I think the stability has put UNI in about the best position possible to continue to be good, even if Jacobson were to leave. There are multiple current and former assistants who would be good candidates and understand the formula for success here. That said, I think Jake will be here for quite a while.