Report: Wichita State has contacted Mountain West

[Cdizzle]

Obviously Marty must be able to coach a little since he coached his team to defeat Butler both years they went to the Final Four and Wichita twice the year they went to the Final Four.

Sweet baby Jesus, here we go again. The shining beacon of light are 4 regular season super bowls from 4-7 years ago! What a legacy.

The fact that you guys don't get it is kind of the point. When mediocrity (at best) is fine with everyone (fans, community, university, administration), that's not trying. No one is saying Simmons is the worst coach ever. But he's been the coach at the same institution for 9 years, has a .426 league win percentage and hasn't ever made even the NIT. If everyone (fans, community, university, administration) thinks that means they should proceed to year 10 with the same coach, then it is completely reasonable for other members of a struggling league to surmise that athletic department is not only not pulling their weight, but isn't trying to pull their weight.

If Simmons is this fantastic coach and the university simply isn't providing him the necessary amenities to compete at a .500+ league level, much less have regional or national relevance on a once per decade cadence; AND they have no intent in changing that level of support, then the league is going to suffer, and needs a school willing to try.

Graduating players and having them receive contracts to play pro ball is great. It also happens at like 300 of the 350 D1 schools. It's not worth more than money. And it's certainly not worth more than the money that is being earned by other members of the league and spent by Evansville. An athletic league shouldn't have members operating on friggin' welfare while they sit back and say "things are going good enough, we won a game 4 years ago."

[Cdizzle]

This is the problem with Evansville. They're perfectly content to do nothing. I'm not sure they're alone, but their fans are the most vocal about enjoying not ever playing in meaningful post season games.

Jeez - where does this thought come from - UE fans want post season as much as Loyola to the north / Wichita to south.

If Marty is doing the best he can with the budget that he is given then the budget needs to be raised or Wichita State and Evansville do not belong in the same conference.

Boom.

Either the coach is limiting or the budget/support is, or both. It can't be neither with the success (or lack thereof). And if the school isn't willing to address either, much less both, then the league needs to move on.

And if that is the case, not only do Wichita State and Evansville not belong in the same conference, neither do Bradley and Evansville. Or Illinois State and Evansville. Or UNI and Evansville.

[MoValley John]

Was it amillion or $600,000? Or $450,000? I've heard them all thrown out as to what MSU offered Cuonzo. I have this from way back when it happened:

Re: Counzo Martin new Tennessee Vols coach
Postby MSUDuo » March 27th, 2011, 6:19 pm

Haha wrote:
What was Martin making and what was the planned increase? I guess what I'm asking is how high do you think MSU is willing to pay if they come across the right experienced/successful coach.

I don't mean that to sound jerky.


He was at about 300k and the raise was to about 600k.



I would imagine that the new coach will be back at around 300k as 600k is probably our ceiling..

I could be wrong but I thought that at least our local paper reported he (Cuonzo ) was offered a package deal that was close to 1 million. I think that package deal included not just salary but $$ from other sources like the Bears tv show. I thought the initial offer was 600k but that we ended up raising the offer substantially.

I feel fairly confidant that we could put together enough $$ for a first class coach like Jacobsen. But who knows for sure. This is the same athletic dept that gave Lusk that ridiculous extension.

Imo the real problem for the Bears and the rest of the Valley is finding a first class coach that actually likes the valley enough to stay. Excepting wsu and uni of course.

I wasnt trying to be a jerk, I just saw the million and did a big double take. From what I rember, the $600,000 is correct, as was that figure being the ceiling. The only reason I asked is that there is a world of difference between the two figures, and going back to 2011, $1 million would put you in Gregg Marshall land. Also, when you are speaking of coaches, how much they earn, and being able to retain them, it probably helps if we are close to accurate on real numbers.

All that being said, there is some luck in UNI finding Jacobsen, but I think they also have done a great job in keeping him. Without a true commitment from the university, and a real effort from UNI to keep him, Jacobsen would be ciaching elsewhere right now. Money isn't the end all, UNI has bridged the gap.

On the other hand, all the wheelbarrows in the world wouldn't have kept Cuonzo, when things got dicey, he blew out of Knoxville as fast as he blew out of Springfield. Cuonzo isn't at his destination yet, the next hot chick that calls and he will dump Cal just as fast. I don't think Martin understands loyalty.

[MSUDuo]

When speaking about his salary I was speaking on base salary terms. I do believe his total package was close to $1 million as well.

If you want to split hairs between Marshall being at a base of $1 million and the Bears offering 'Zo a total package of $1 million, be my guest. Both are a substantial amount of money and show a willingness to commit and be competitive considering Barry won a bunch here and never saw that kind of money (and rightfully so)

[glm38]

No I do don't think you are trying to be a jerk (meaning MO valley john). As I said I could be mistaken. I tried to search the news leader site for the article but it wouldn't go back that far. There is a big difference between 600k and a million.

I do disagree regarding Martin though. I like him. I think he's a classy guy and a good coach. He's done some job hopping but he's entitled to do that IMO. In a recent interview he spoke highly of MSU and the Valley.

He got a raw deal at Tennessee IMO. My understanding is he wouldn't run the team according to how certain boosters wanted him to. Those boosters started a petition to have him ousted. The petition failed but shortly after he jumped ship. I don't blame him for doing so under those circumstances.

[MoValley John]

When speaking about his salary I was speaking on base salary terms. I do believe his total package was close to $1 million as well.

If you want to split hairs between Marshall being at a base of $1 million and the Bears offering 'Zo a total package of $1 million, be my guest. Both are a substantial amount of money and show a willingness to commit and be competitive considering Barry won a bunch here and never saw that kind of money (and rightfully so)

I'm not spoiling hairs, and I'm not trying to start trouble. That said, it is important to be accurate when discussing these details. My contention all along, going back more than a decade is that for a program to judge success, there needs to be expectations and those expectations need to be in line with monetary commitment. It is unfair to pay a coach near the bottom of the league salary and expect him to routinely win championships. It would be great for the school for that to happen, but life doesnt work that way.

I also understand that you don't want to pay an unproven coach championship money before he wins anything. There has to be a balance. For Valley schools to be competitive in today's environment, the athletic department needs to be fully funded, and coaches and assistants need to be fairly compensated. This includes funding the student atlete's COA.

If Valley schools aren't doing as above, they and their fans are kidding themselves. The cost to be competitive is going to continue to escalate, and if fans want their teams to compete, they need to pony up. The Valley can be great again, but...

My only point in questioning the million dollar figure is that I remember that number being much lower, even as reported from Bears fans, and when assessing commitment, it really doesn't do anybody any good to not have accurate numbers. Personally, it doesn't matter to me if MSU offered Cuonzo $500,000, $600,000, a million or sixty bucks, but if Cuonzo would have stayed for a million, and fans think the university offered him a million, but the school really only offered $550,000, a country club membership and a car - fans of the school don't have an accurate assesment and don't have any way to form an opinion of what transpired. Nobody can judge the school's true commitment with faulty numbers.

As for UNI, they got lucky hiring Jacobsen and even though they aren't a "rich" school, they have done everything they can to keep him. There is some luck in keeping him, but also, Jacobsen knowing that he has job securuty, the school and fans support him, and they will do everything in their power to keep him, make UNI's retention of him, less about luck and more about hard work and stability.

I just think it's important, when having these discussions to know what the numbers are. Not just MSU, but a lot of fans from a lot of schools like to throw out salaries and expenses like its contest to see who has the biggest phallus. I just don't think it does any good. If MSU offered a million, I'm impressed, but I'd really like to find out an accurate number so I can form an opinion based on what really transpired.

[sixth ace]

Jeez - where does this thought come from - UE fans want post season as much as Loyola to the north / Wichita to south.

If Marty is doing the best he can with the budget that he is given then the budget needs to be raised or Wichita State and Evansville do not belong in the same conference.[/quote]
Boom.

Either the coach is limiting or the budget/support is, or both. It can't be neither with the success (or lack thereof). And if the school isn't willing to address either, much less both, then the league needs to move on.

And if that is the case, not only do Wichita State and Evansville not belong in the same conference, neither do Bradley and Evansville. Or Illinois State and Evansville. Or UNI and Evansville.[/quote]

So when is WSU leaving? Subject of the thread.

[sixth ace]

State supported schools compare to private. When the taxpayer money, which no one here has address.subsidizes the amount that donors give, you have a two income department compared to the private donor base toting the bill.

Just Sayin !

So when is WSU leaving?

[MoValley John]

This is the problem with Evansville. They're perfectly content to do nothing. I'm not sure they're alone, but their fans are the most vocal about enjoying not ever playing in meaningful post season games.

Jeez - where does this thought come from - UE fans want post season as much as Loyola to the north / Wichita to south.

Wichita is more west than south. Close to due west.

[Snaggletooth]

State supported schools compare to private. When the taxpayer money, which no one here has address.subsidizes the amount that donors give, you have a two income department compared to the private donor base toting the bill.

Just Sayin !

So when is WSU leaving?

I think Evansville leaves before WSU.