November 14th - 18th MVC games

[uniftw]

Congratulations to UNI.

Yes.

Not only a win against a Pac 12 team, but on the road and by 19.

Neutral site.

Whether AZ St. figures to be at the bottom of their conference or not, that is an excellent win for the Panthers and the Valley. Would love to see more MVC teams pull off such wins.

No. UNI is better than Arizona State in every way. They should expect to win that game. And they did. Arizona State is not a good team, so that is not an excellent win. Again, not taking anything away from UNI, they handled business. But there is no better way to validate the narrative that crappy 9th place teams in the Pac12 should get tourney bids than for the teams they are stealing those bids from to pretend like beating the crap out of them is a big deal.

I am glad that UNI won. I hope they win again tomorrow. Interested to see that game, as WSU will face OU a month from now.

Well, Arizona State had an RPI of 99 last year and 11 of the 12 PAC12 teams had RPI's of 102 or better.

The reality is Arizona State is probably about even, or maybe better, than Long Beach State. Turns out playing in the PAC12 will lead to more loss chances than the damn Big West who had 5 teams worse than 236 in the RPI last year. LBSU was also 18-14 last season, yet they hype after beating LBSU was very real on this board.

Also consider that 4 of UNI's guards combined to shoot 3-23 yesterday in that 19 point win.

[Cdizzle]

Congratulations to UNI.

Yes.

Not only a win against a Pac 12 team, but on the road and by 19.

Neutral site.

Whether AZ St. figures to be at the bottom of their conference or not, that is an excellent win for the Panthers and the Valley. Would love to see more MVC teams pull off such wins.

No. UNI is better than Arizona State in every way. They should expect to win that game. And they did. Arizona State is not a good team, so that is not an excellent win. Again, not taking anything away from UNI, they handled business. But there is no better way to validate the narrative that crappy 9th place teams in the Pac12 should get tourney bids than for the teams they are stealing those bids from to pretend like beating the crap out of them is a big deal.

I am glad that UNI won. I hope they win again tomorrow. Interested to see that game, as WSU will face OU a month from now.

Well, Arizona State had an RPI of 99 last year and 11 of the 12 PAC12 teams had RPI's of 102 or better.

The reality is Arizona State is probably about even, or maybe better, than Long Beach State. Turns out playing in the PAC12 will lead to more loss chances than the damn Big West who had 5 teams worse than 236 in the RPI last year. LBSU was also 18-14 last season, yet they hype after beating LBSU was very real on this board.

Also consider that 4 of UNI's guards combined to shoot 3-23 yesterday in that 19 point win.

[Stickboy46]

Congratulations to UNI.

Yes.

Not only a win against a Pac 12 team, but on the road and by 19.

Neutral site.

Whether AZ St. figures to be at the bottom of their conference or not, that is an excellent win for the Panthers and the Valley. Would love to see more MVC teams pull off such wins.

No. UNI is better than Arizona State in every way. They should expect to win that game. And they did. Arizona State is not a good team, so that is not an excellent win. Again, not taking anything away from UNI, they handled business. But there is no better way to validate the narrative that crappy 9th place teams in the Pac12 should get tourney bids than for the teams they are stealing those bids from to pretend like beating the crap out of them is a big deal.

I am glad that UNI won. I hope they win again tomorrow. Interested to see that game, as WSU will face OU a month from now.

Well, Arizona State had an RPI of 99 last year and 11 of the 12 PAC12 teams had RPI's of 102 or better.

The reality is Arizona State is probably about even, or maybe better, than Long Beach State. Turns out playing in the PAC12 will lead to more loss chances than the damn Big West who had 5 teams worse than 236 in the RPI last year. LBSU was also 18-14 last season, yet they hype after beating LBSU was very real on this board.

Also consider that 4 of UNI's guards combined to shoot 3-23 yesterday in that 19 point win.

The hype for beating LBSU was because it was a 37 point beatdown. Also LBSU was ~80 RPI last year and expected to be better this year. ASU was 99 RPI but expected to be worse this year. Some of the LBSU hype has worn off since they turned around and lost to UNC by 25, and Louisville by 32. Though that also means that WSU is beating teams in the same way or better than Top 10 teams are. Which is way better of a position that I thought WSU would be in 2 games into replacing Fred and Ron.

Don't get me wrong, its one of the better wins for the MVC this year. Just don't really know how to read it. It was close for most of the game, and my biggest concern is the number of 3s that UNI took. 52% of the FG attempts were from 3. It worked out for this game because players were shooting well, but having over 50% of your shots being 3s is a recipe for an up and down season (42% were 3s in the COE game which is still really high to me). The OU game will be a solid test. Either way its good to be discussing about which win is better than discussing which loss is worst (like a lot of the MVC is doing right now)

As far as your last point, you also had 2 players go 9-13 from 3 (Morgan and Haldeman). I hope you aren't relying on that to happen every game.

[specialsauce]

Whoa, where did that come from? Who the hell made any comparisons between Long Beach and Arizona State?

The fact is Arizona State is a pretty bad team. The fact they have a P5 label shouldn't make them better than they really are. It would be the same lame argument if somebody bragged up a win over Boston College or Minnesota.

If UNI is as good as a lot of their fans feel, then they should have whooped up on Arizona State like they did. I'm lost as to why somebody is so defensive about calling Arizona State "bad" because that's what they are.

[uniftw]

[quote="Stickboy46"

The hype for beating LBSU was because it was a 37 point beatdown. Also LBSU was ~80 RPI last year and expected to be better this year. ASU was 99 RPI but expected to be worse this year. Some of the LBSU hype has worn off since they turned around and lost to UNC by 25, and Louisville by 32. Though that also means that WSU is beating teams in the same way or better than Top 10 teams are. Which is way better of a position that I thought WSU would be in 2 games into replacing Fred and Ron.

Don't get me wrong, its one of the better wins for the MVC this year. Just don't really know how to read it. It was close for most of the game, and my biggest concern is the number of 3s that UNI took. 52% of the FG attempts were from 3. It worked out for this game because players were shooting well, but having over 50% of your shots being 3s is a recipe for an up and down season (42% were 3s in the COE game which is still really high to me). The OU game will be a solid test. Either way its good to be discussing about which win is better than discussing which loss is worst (like a lot of the MVC is doing right now)

As far as your last point, you also had 2 players go 9-13 from 3 (Morgan and Haldeman). I hope you aren't relying on that to happen every game.[/quote]The other 4 were 2-13.

Average that out to a realistic average and it's not a ton different. 11-26.

Last season 43% of UNI's shots were 3 point field goals.
The year before was 38% (but remember we had Seth Tuttle anchoring the center spot)
Average over Jake's tenure is pretty much always between 37.5-43%

Beating LBSU by that much might also mean that they could be pretty bad. They could, realistically, leave OOC play with 2 or 3 total wins.

[BuBrave2006]

I mean, Arizona State was favored going into this game. I know that doesn't mean a ton, but when you have a 19 point win as an "underdog," I would still say it is an impressive win regardless of perceptions.

Remember everyone, Vegas knows more than we do.

[uniftw]

I mean, Arizona State was favored going into this game. I know that doesn't mean a ton, but when you have a 19 point win as an "underdog," I would still say it is an impressive win regardless of perceptions.

Remember everyone, Vegas knows more than we do.

Beat the spread by 23

[Stickboy46]

[quote="Stickboy46"

The hype for beating LBSU was because it was a 37 point beatdown. Also LBSU was ~80 RPI last year and expected to be better this year. ASU was 99 RPI but expected to be worse this year. Some of the LBSU hype has worn off since they turned around and lost to UNC by 25, and Louisville by 32. Though that also means that WSU is beating teams in the same way or better than Top 10 teams are. Which is way better of a position that I thought WSU would be in 2 games into replacing Fred and Ron.

Don't get me wrong, its one of the better wins for the MVC this year. Just don't really know how to read it. It was close for most of the game, and my biggest concern is the number of 3s that UNI took. 52% of the FG attempts were from 3. It worked out for this game because players were shooting well, but having over 50% of your shots being 3s is a recipe for an up and down season (42% were 3s in the COE game which is still really high to me). The OU game will be a solid test. Either way its good to be discussing about which win is better than discussing which loss is worst (like a lot of the MVC is doing right now)

As far as your last point, you also had 2 players go 9-13 from 3 (Morgan and Haldeman). I hope you aren't relying on that to happen every game.

The other 4 were 2-13.

Average that out to a realistic average and it's not a ton different. 11-26.

Last season 43% of UNI's shots were 3 point field goals.
The year before was 38% (but remember we had Seth Tuttle anchoring the center spot)
Average over Jake's tenure is pretty much always between 37.5-43%

Beating LBSU by that much might also mean that they could be pretty bad. They could, realistically, leave OOC play with 2 or 3 total wins.[/quote]

Pointing out that UNI shot 43% of their shots as 3 last year proves my point. Last year was an up and down year for you guys. Really high highs (UNC, Iowa State, MVC Tourney), really low lows (Loyola ....). Works out some times, doesn't work out others.

And very true about LBSU, they could be bad. They could be average, its going to be hard to tell with the gauntlet of the schedule they have this year.

[specialsauce]

I mean, Arizona State was favored going into this game. I know that doesn't mean a ton, but when you have a 19 point win as an "underdog," I would still say it is an impressive win regardless of perceptions.

Remember everyone, Vegas knows more than we do.

Spreads are pretty meaningless this early in the year. Vegas doesn't know how bad Arizona State could be or how good UNI could be. They just want people to bet.

[specialsauce]

Oh and Long Beach is a pretty bad team. They were "hyped" because they were hyped going into the year. And the argument that they could only wind up with 2 or 3 OOC wins is pretty silly when they're playing 90% of their games on the road against a SOS of around 1. Just say that they're bad.