MVC Games Week 4 2023-24

[MissouriValleyUnite]

The problem is college sports are extremely unique. In all honesty - MVC schools really shouldn’t be competing for the same “championship” as Big Ten teams. They aren’t close as athletic departments and institutions in any way really.

They absolutely should be. That's the reason the reason the NCAA tournament is the greatest event in sports.
Despite all of the odds and money being stacked against the little guy, the power conference teams actually have to beat their opponent rather than relying on narratives and branding.

You may think that "MVC schools shouldn't be competing for the same championship" but the Valley has had two final four teams in the past decade. And half of the final four teams last year were mid-majors. I'm sure eventually money will win out and the Big Boys will take their ball and go home. But to say that we shouldn't be competing for the same championship (as a supposed fan of mid-major basketball) is bizarre.

2006 - CAA
2011 - CAA, Horizon
2013 - MVC
2017 - WCC
2018 - MVC
2021 - WCC
2023 - CUSA, MWC

How many times does a mid-major coming close to a national title have to happen? Is 9 times over the past 18 years (once every 2 years) not enough?

[tribecalledquest]

The problem is college sports are extremely unique. In all honesty - MVC schools really shouldn’t be competing for the same “championship” as Big Ten teams. They aren’t close as athletic departments and institutions in any way really.

They absolutely should be. That's the reason the reason the NCAA tournament is the greatest event in sports.
Despite all of the odds and money being stacked against the little guy, the power conference teams actually have to beat their opponent rather than relying on narratives and branding.

You may think that "MVC schools shouldn't be competing for the same championship" but the Valley has had two final four teams in the past decade. And half of the final four teams last year were mid-majors. I'm sure eventually money will win out and the Big Boys will take their ball and go home. But to say that we shouldn't be competing for the same championship (as a supposed fan of mid-major basketball) is bizarre.

2006 - CAA
2011 - CAA, Horizon
2013 - MVC
2017 - WCC
2018 - MVC
2021 - WCC
2023 - CUSA, MWC

How many times does a mid-major coming close to a national title have to happen? Is 9 times over the past 18 years (once every 2 years) not enough?

I don't consider 13% of the Final Four participants spanning 25+ different conferences a very large amount. 87% of the Final Four teams since 2006 have come from P6 leagues.

I love the Valley. Love it. But I'm also not going to sit here and blame the "big boys" for everything that is wrong in the world. The "big boys" pay the bills. Pretty much all of them. So they get to call the shots. Don't like it - then move to a different division.

There is no reason for any P6 member to care about being equal to the MVC anymore than an MVC member should care about being equal to the SWAC.

[BEARZ77]

I would argue your stats are a prime example of opportunity as much as solely superiority. When you get 85% of the at large bids and you generally garner 100% of the top 16 seeds , I would expect the P-5 to fully dominate the FF picture. And your perspective makes sense in the normal business world of cut throat economics and capitalism, but it flies directly in the face of the expressed mission, goal and principles of the NCAA who supposedly support providing fair and equitable opportunities for all members and student athletes.I didn't read anything about rewarding our most affluent and highest earning Universities with advantages that ensure protecting their status because they make us more money.

[tribecalledquest]

I would argue your stats are a prime example of opportunity as much as solely superiority. When you get 85% of the at large bids and you generally garner 100% of the top 16 seeds , I would expect the P-5 to fully dominate the FF picture. And your perspective makes sense in the normal business world of cut throat economics and capitalism, but it flies directly in the face of the expressed mission, goal and principles of the NCAA who supposedly support providing fair and equitable opportunities for all members and student athletes.I didn't read anything about rewarding our most affluent and highest earning Universities with advantages that ensure protecting their status because they make us more money.

Are you ok with Missouri State’s budget and funding taking a hit to give more money to Mississippi Valley State?

There is nothing fair or equitable about NCAA athletics.

I think we all agree money drives everything. Even big time college athletics. If you want to compete in the big time that’s how it works.

[Salukimadness86]

I would argue your stats are a prime example of opportunity as much as solely superiority. When you get 85% of the at large bids and you generally garner 100% of the top 16 seeds , I would expect the P-5 to fully dominate the FF picture. And your perspective makes sense in the normal business world of cut throat economics and capitalism, but it flies directly in the face of the expressed mission, goal and principles of the NCAA who supposedly support providing fair and equitable opportunities for all members and student athletes.I didn't read anything about rewarding our most affluent and highest earning Universities with advantages that ensure protecting their status because they make us more money.

Well said.

[TheDrake]

I would argue your stats are a prime example of opportunity as much as solely superiority. When you get 85% of the at large bids and you generally garner 100% of the top 16 seeds , I would expect the P-5 to fully dominate the FF picture. And your perspective makes sense in the normal business world of cut throat economics and capitalism, but it flies directly in the face of the expressed mission, goal and principles of the NCAA who supposedly support providing fair and equitable opportunities for all members and student athletes.I didn't read anything about rewarding our most affluent and highest earning Universities with advantages that ensure protecting their status because they make us more money.

He didn’t think of that. Not to mention that mid-majors are always underseeded and given more difficult paths through the tournament. This guy isn’t going to change his mind though. Pretty sure he’s actually an Illini fan or something with Bradley as a backup interest. (Cue rant about unwavering loyalty to the braves)

[BuBrave2006]

Impossible to get an at large? Can we stop with the defeatism please? Just because UNI overscheduled and couldn't handle the load they were given doesn't mean other teams shouldn't do it. Just in 2021 the MVC had two bids and both teams won a game. The freaking OVC got two bids in 2019 with teams that are currently in our league. Those two teams regularly posted at large caliber seasons where they either won the auto bid or barely missed because the rest of their conference was so bad. One of them (Murray State) WINS REGULARLY when they get to the tournament. The WCC recently got 3 teams. The Mountain West got FOUR teams LAST YEAR. The A-10 regularly gets multiple bids. Are these not our peer leagues (outside of the OVC which we are obviously ahead of) or are we really behind them? The bottom of this conference is as strong as it's ever been. Bradley has a litany of good wins if they can shake off the loss to Murray they'll be fine. Missouri State Drake and Indiana State look extremely solid and can be a factor in that discussion if they do well in conference play. There are still opportunities for these teams to build their resumes. This league CAN still get at large bids but it's going to take effort and belief on the part of EVERY Valley school to get it done. I salute Coach Jacobson for what he does every year and wish more schools would emulate it. I believe that we can revive the spirit of the mid 2000s that made me fall in love with this league. When we weren't afraid to punch above our weight and regularly did so quite successfully. Too many coaches and fanbases have gone soft (I get it I'm guilty of it too sometimes--losing a lot will do that to you). But we need to believe in who we once were--who we ARE fundamentally and who we CAN BE again!

This is a romanticized take on the current dynamic in college basketball and in the MVC. This isn't 2006 and, candidly, there isn't a team in this league right now that would finish in the top half of the 2006 MVC.

Punching above your weight requires teams capable of winning those games. The mid-2000s MVC teams were dogs with NBA talent on multiple teams.

Overscheduling doesn't help anyone. You need to play the best teams that you can beat and beat them.

If you look at 2005-06, Indiana State lost 11 conference games in a row, won just four league games and tied for last place. Its nonconference record: 8-1, because David Moss was a really good player. That is what you need.

You don't need to play on ESPN, you need play games you can win.

The MVC is still a good league, but the chances for at-large bids are a slim as ever.

With how our non-con has gone this year, if a team like Indiana St, Drake, Bradley or Missouri St went 16-4 or 17-3 in the conference, that would put then in at large talk (if they finish the non-con strong). It's still totally doable in this day and age for the MVC to put at large caliber teams in the mix. It's just really hard. Going 16-4 or better in this league (especially if its as good as we've looked in the non-con) is going to be damn near impossible and if any one of the teams that I mentioned does it, they'll be something around 27-6ish with probably a NET in the 40s or 50s which would absolutely be in the conversation.

The problem isn't that the MVC doesn't have a chance at getting at larges, its just that generally we don't have teams good enough to earn it. We're deep enough as a conference this year that going 16-4 or 17-3 would look better in the metrics than years past, but it's going to make it much harder to do. That is what it takes. This is the world we live in now. Teams like Bradley, MSU, Drake and Indiana St have had good enough non-cons to give themselves a nonzero chance. You want an at large now? Go out and dominate the valley. If you don't, no one to blame but yourself.

[BEARZ77]

I just find that post and thinking naive; 26-6 doesn't mean squat if it doesn't have the requisite Q-1 wins. Does anybody tell the 8th place SEC team, go out and dominate the SEC if ya wanna get in the tourney. Of course not, because they will play 15 or so Q1 games with over half at home and so all they have to do is win those home games and they have a resume that might read 18-13 , but has 8 Q1 wins while that 26-6 MM has 3 . Do we forget a Valley Co Champion who went 17-1 in the MVC was denied an at large, the exact scenario being described .

[tribecalledquest]

I would argue your stats are a prime example of opportunity as much as solely superiority. When you get 85% of the at large bids and you generally garner 100% of the top 16 seeds , I would expect the P-5 to fully dominate the FF picture. And your perspective makes sense in the normal business world of cut throat economics and capitalism, but it flies directly in the face of the expressed mission, goal and principles of the NCAA who supposedly support providing fair and equitable opportunities for all members and student athletes.I didn't read anything about rewarding our most affluent and highest earning Universities with advantages that ensure protecting their status because they make us more money.

He didn’t think of that. Not to mention that mid-majors are always underseeded and given more difficult paths through the tournament. This guy isn’t going to change his mind though. Pretty sure he’s actually an Illini fan or something with Bradley as a backup interest. (Cue rant about unwavering loyalty to the braves)

So to be a fan of a team you have to leave all logic and rational thinking at the door?

No one has answered my question though. If we want the P5 teams to not be so greedy then are we willing to cut our budgets and share our money with the Mississippi Valley State’s of the world? Should it be 100% equal for all 350+ NCAA D1 teams?

[tribecalledquest]

Impossible to get an at large? Can we stop with the defeatism please? Just because UNI overscheduled and couldn't handle the load they were given doesn't mean other teams shouldn't do it. Just in 2021 the MVC had two bids and both teams won a game. The freaking OVC got two bids in 2019 with teams that are currently in our league. Those two teams regularly posted at large caliber seasons where they either won the auto bid or barely missed because the rest of their conference was so bad. One of them (Murray State) WINS REGULARLY when they get to the tournament. The WCC recently got 3 teams. The Mountain West got FOUR teams LAST YEAR. The A-10 regularly gets multiple bids. Are these not our peer leagues (outside of the OVC which we are obviously ahead of) or are we really behind them? The bottom of this conference is as strong as it's ever been. Bradley has a litany of good wins if they can shake off the loss to Murray they'll be fine. Missouri State Drake and Indiana State look extremely solid and can be a factor in that discussion if they do well in conference play. There are still opportunities for these teams to build their resumes. This league CAN still get at large bids but it's going to take effort and belief on the part of EVERY Valley school to get it done. I salute Coach Jacobson for what he does every year and wish more schools would emulate it. I believe that we can revive the spirit of the mid 2000s that made me fall in love with this league. When we weren't afraid to punch above our weight and regularly did so quite successfully. Too many coaches and fanbases have gone soft (I get it I'm guilty of it too sometimes--losing a lot will do that to you). But we need to believe in who we once were--who we ARE fundamentally and who we CAN BE again!

This is a romanticized take on the current dynamic in college basketball and in the MVC. This isn't 2006 and, candidly, there isn't a team in this league right now that would finish in the top half of the 2006 MVC.

Punching above your weight requires teams capable of winning those games. The mid-2000s MVC teams were dogs with NBA talent on multiple teams.

Overscheduling doesn't help anyone. You need to play the best teams that you can beat and beat them.

If you look at 2005-06, Indiana State lost 11 conference games in a row, won just four league games and tied for last place. Its nonconference record: 8-1, because David Moss was a really good player. That is what you need.

You don't need to play on ESPN, you need play games you can win.

The MVC is still a good league, but the chances for at-large bids are a slim as ever.

With how our non-con has gone this year, if a team like Indiana St, Drake, Bradley or Missouri St went 16-4 or 17-3 in the conference, that would put then in at large talk (if they finish the non-con strong). It's still totally doable in this day and age for the MVC to put at large caliber teams in the mix. It's just really hard. Going 16-4 or better in this league (especially if its as good as we've looked in the non-con) is going to be damn near impossible and if any one of the teams that I mentioned does it, they'll be something around 27-6ish with probably a NET in the 40s or 50s which would absolutely be in the conversation.

The problem isn't that the MVC doesn't have a chance at getting at larges, its just that generally we don't have teams good enough to earn it. We're deep enough as a conference this year that going 16-4 or 17-3 would look better in the metrics than years past, but it's going to make it much harder to do. That is what it takes. This is the world we live in now. Teams like Bradley, MSU, Drake and Indiana St have had good enough non-cons to give themselves a nonzero chance. You want an at large now? Go out and dominate the valley. If you don't, no one to blame but yourself.

Right. Instead of bitching about the world being unfair be better at basketball. The league hasn’t been very good lately. Thats a much bigger issue than worrying about the “equality” of it all. Most coaches have scheduled like crap and when good chances for wins are there teams have crapped down their legs.

Thats why this league non conference slate has been so encouraging. Play games and win games.