Should the Valley add NIU?

by **IllinoisState** » September 27th, 2024, 1:01 pm

This is to complement the other poll about Toledo.

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by **MissouriValleyUnite** » September 27th, 2024, 1:05 pm

I'm 100% Yes on Toledo.
I'm 100% No on NIU.

Toledo's Ten Year KenPom of 89th would rank 2nd in the MVC, only 3 spots from 1st (86th).
Toledo's near-5k attendance would rank 3rd in the MVC.

NIU is an annual 250-300 team that would be the MVC's worst program by a wide margin.
NIU's MBB expenses are ranked in the 320s, which is EIU/WIU territory and barely above Chicago St.
NIU's average attendance is 902, which would be worst in the MVC by far.

I do wish NIU well in football and know they have a lot of passionate football fans, but almost none of them translate to MBB.

by **BCPanther** » September 27th, 2024, 1:28 pm

NIU doesn't meet Valley budget or scheduling minimums so for them to even be eligible for an invite, they'd have to dump a whole lot of money into MBB and I don't think they have any desire to do that.

They're also pretty valuable to the Horizon and the travel and competitiveness is better for them there. I'm not sure they'd even be interested in The Valley.

That said, if taking NIU is the price you have to pay to get Toledo, you hold your nose and do it but I don't think they're connected in any way.

by **harley93davidson** » September 27th, 2024, 1:30 pm

I'm against Toledo, but I could at least be talked into coming around to them. Why exactly would we add niu? Even if I conceded Toledo was a good idea, I would reject both over accepting both if that was the offer. This would be mind numbingly bad.

by **ReZyNeZy** » September 27th, 2024, 1:58 pm

If they market themselves as a package deal, you bite the bullet. If they want to go separate ways, well then Toledo is your 12 team. Toledo has had consistent success in basketball and avgs a top 100 finish. They at least show some sort of a commitment to basketball, and have an established brand that is well known. NIU also has an established brand, but their lack of basketball success makes them undesirable outside of a package deal. NIU could go out and get some decent matchups if required to do so, but they seem content to get buy games and be the football programs pay piggy.
I know some have outlined the "loyalty" aspect. As in not trusting either team to be loyal to the Valley given a commitment to the MWC for football, but Toledo has commitments to their basketball program and would likely show a little more good faith than NIU who has no commitments to maintaining basketball. However, to claim it to be stupid to go after 1 or both of these teams is not correct.

by **BCPanther** » September 27th, 2024, 2:51 pm

harley93davidson wrote:I'm against Toledo, but I could at least be talked into coming around to them. Why exactly would we add niu? Even if I conceded Toledo was a good idea, I would reject both over accepting both if that was the offer. This would be mind numbingly bad.

What makes you against Toledo? They have the exact profile that we'd be looking for in a 12th and a clear, clear upgrade over Missouri State.

by **harley93davidson** » September 27th, 2024, 3:43 pm

BCPanther wrote:
harley93davidson wrote:I'm against Toledo, but I could at least be talked into coming around to them. Why exactly would we add niu? Even if I conceded Toledo was a good idea, I would reject both over accepting both if that was the offer. This would be mind numbingly bad.

What makes you against Toledo? They have the exact profile that we'd be looking for in a 12th and a clear, clear upgrade over Missouri State.

Ive come around to Toledo after a long slow work day where I had plenty of time to think. My point about saying no as a package deal still stands though. My biggest concern is that we would just be a conference for them to put their other teams in while they went to the mountain West for football, as long as Toledo could give some guarantees about continuing their basketball performance then I think we have to take them.

by **VUGrad1314** » September 27th, 2024, 4:01 pm

One thing I would be concerned about is whether the substantial travel cost increase to Toledo football would harm their basketball program or if they would make this up in guarantee games in the nonconference? I can't imagine the media deal being any better for them than it is in the MAC with most of the best brands in the MWC gone. Also most of their games in all sports are bus trips so there's a not insignificant travel cost for Toledo in Olympic sports as well. They have the profile but do they have the financial strength to take all of this on and maintain it? NIU fits our footprint but is not a strong enough program. They kind of face the opposite problem of having to fly most places where a good portion of their Olympic trips would be bus trips. I'm still not sure if the league would benefit from adding them especially with the additional football expenses factored in. Tough call when we're involving FBS Schools in our league who will leave at the earliest opportunity for a better fit. I doubt this ends up happening though because MAC schools leaving for the MWC is just stupid on its face even for FB only.

by **IllinoisState** » September 28th, 2024, 11:16 am

VUGrad1314 wrote:One thing I would be concerned about is whether the substantial travel cost increase to Toledo football would harm their basketball program or if they would make this up in guarantee games in the nonconference? I can't imagine the media deal being any better for them than it is in the MAC with most of the best brands in the MWC gone. Also most of their games in all sports are bus trips so there's a not insignificant travel cost for Toledo in Olympic sports as well. They have the profile but do they have the financial strength to take all of this on and maintain it? NIU fits our footprint but is not a strong enough program. They kind of face the opposite problem of having to fly most places where a good portion of their Olympic trips would be bus trips. I'm still not sure if the league would benefit from adding them especially with the additional football expenses factored in. Tough call when we're involving FBS Schools in our league who will leave at the earliest opportunity for a better fit. I doubt this ends up happening though because MAC schools leaving for the MWC is just stupid on its face even for FB only.

If Toledo and/or NIU were to be offered an accept the MWC I'd hope the tv money would cover anything additional travel expenses. It'd only be 4 away conference games.

by **bleach** » September 30th, 2024, 6:57 pm

Isn't a real possibility with them being BCS in football.