Creighton @ Wichita State

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Re: Creighton @ Wichita State

Postby C0|db|00ded » January 17th, 2013, 12:49 pm

Ricardo del Rio wrote:If the Shockers win, it will be because it put up more shots. A lot more.

Possessions will be very important for the Shockers. It means the Shockers must win the rebound, turnover and personal foul stat lines. The Shocks rebound well, but not so much in the other two categories.

I told Señora Rio last night that the Blue Birds will win by 15 and I am sticking to it.


15?

RDR, either you are being purposefully silly or you stumbled into somebody's liquor cabinet.

BJ beat off ISU by 7, IndySt by 13, NIU by 11, got hammered by Boise St Powerhouse (@ home), and you think they are coming into Koch Arena and spanking us by 15?

I'm telling the bartender to cut you off!


T


...:cool:
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Re: Creighton @ Wichita State

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Re: Creighton @ Wichita State

Postby horacepinker » January 17th, 2013, 12:55 pm

Two totally contrasting styles. One will impose their will on the other, that team will win. Anyone that thinks they can predict which team will win when 2 really good teams play is an egomaniac or insecure or both. I hope that the Shox and their "athletic" style come out on top, but I have no clue what will actually happen.
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"i agree , wsu recruits athletes, but in reality they dont recruit any better basketball players than isu or ill. st, and creighton definately recruits better than wichita, wichita is the most over-rated valley team"
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Re: Creighton @ Wichita State

Postby 3ontheway » January 17th, 2013, 1:26 pm

C0|db|00ded wrote:This Saturday's game is the first MVC game I am somewhat excited about. Granted, BJ is just another mid-major team full of unathletic players that like to jack up 3-balls, but at least they are a ranked mid-major team full of unathletic players.

Wichita State plays to the level of their competition and they have been getting bored lately. Rest assured, the Shocker team that played last night (or against Evansville) won't be the Shocker team that shows up Saturday. Creighton is going to have its hands full. It will be fun watching how far back they start shooting the three balls.

And I am HOPING that SoW shows me something this year. The last time I watched him play was last year's game in Omaha were he stood around helpless and watched us boat race his team in front of a sold out home crowd. I personally don't think he is that talented of a player (his effort is 110% though) - something that flies in the face of a lot of people's opinions right now. I want SoW to shut me up with an outstanding performance Saturday. If SoW gets lost in the madness and looks spastic and uncoordinated like he did last year when I watched him, I am going to continue to think he is overrated and laugh at any comments about the NBA.


T


...:cool:


it is amazing that someone as unathletic as doug could make the U-19 national team. astonishing. astonishing and amazing. if doug played on wsu why do i get the feeling that you, cold, would be claiming that he is a young larry bird with a better low post game?

doug is a very good player, but he is not the only reason, or in many games, even the biggest reason, cu wins. they have a cohesive TEAM that is extremely efficient offensively and very difficult for other teams to keep up with for 40 minutes. so keep up your strange obsession with doug and keep trying to sell to others how overrated he is, you come off as a clown, much like how some of your brethren came out of it looking about "Prince" Korver.

if the shox shut down cu and doug, congrats :Cheers: but you will still be a clown.
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Re: Creighton @ Wichita State

Postby CBB_Fan » January 17th, 2013, 1:33 pm

horacepinker wrote:Two totally contrasting styles. One will impose their will on the other, that team will win. Anyone that thinks they can predict which team will win when 2 really good teams play is an egomaniac or insecure or both. I hope that the Shox and their "athletic" style come out on top, but I have no clue what will actually happen.


I totally agree.

Creighton is the BEST team in the country at their playstyle. If you shoot as many shots as them, you lose. They aren't necessarily a half-court team like Wisconsin, because they are very efficient in transition, but trying to out-shoot them is not going to work.

In general, their eFG% goes up in the second half of the shot-clock because they look for open shots and generally drain them. They are good at stopping their opponents from getting extra possessions (TO%, defensive rebounding), but bad at gaining extra possessions themselves. Creighton is a team built to out-shoot people, and they are very good at it.

Wichita State on the other hand, works the opposite way. They are an average shooting team, but they try and create extra possessions. They are good at stealing the ball and rebounding on both ends of the court, and can take away quality shots with their shot-blockers. They also have a defense that forces teams into 2PT jumpers, which Creighton is slightly worse at (same FG% as their 3PT jumpers but less points).

Wichita State scores better early in the shot-clock than late. Their eFG% goes up down by 10% in the last half of the shot-clock, largely because they have problems moving in an offensive set and finding good shots (and in some cases, knocking them down). When they shoot in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock, they are almost as efficient as Creighton (59% to 61% eFG%).

So the name of the game will be the number of possessions each team gets. Creighton will try and keep the possessions roughly similar by playing smart, no mistake basketball and rebounding the ball well on defense. Wichita State will try and ugly the game up, get steals, and try to control their own fouls and TOs.

The X-Factor to me is Nick Wiggins. He is the only player on the Shockers team that can consistently shoot the 3-ball like Creighton at 47%. If he can erase some of the difference in shooting, the Shockers margin for error increases by a lot. Early has occasionally been that guy as well, shooting 45% from the 3PT line since becoming a starter.
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Re: Creighton @ Wichita State

Postby glm38 » January 17th, 2013, 1:50 pm

To me it just comes down to if WSU's superior defense can slow down CU's vaunted offense? Can they force Doug and company out of their comfort zones and make them miss shots? If its an offensive show by both teams I don't think WSU can win.

Should be a good one. Wish both teams were healthy but that's part of it.

ESPN preview:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8850569
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Re: Creighton @ Wichita State

Postby DoubleJayAlum » January 17th, 2013, 1:56 pm

CBB_Fan wrote: In general, their eFG% goes up in the second half of the shot-clock because they look for open shots and generally drain them. They are good at stopping their opponents from getting extra possessions (TO%, defensive rebounding), but bad at gaining extra possessions themselves. Creighton is a team built to out-shoot people, and they are very good at it.

Wichita State on the other hand, works the opposite way. They are an average shooting team, but they try and create extra possessions. They are good at stealing the ball and rebounding on both ends of the court, and can take away quality shots with their shot-blockers. They also have a defense that forces teams into 2PT jumpers, which Creighton is slightly worse at (same FG% as their 3PT jumpers but less points).


WSU's offensive rebounding numbers will be better than Creighton's because WSU misses a lot more shots, hence there are more offensive rebounding opportunities.

I do agree that the team that controls the tempo, should be in a better position to win.
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Re: Creighton @ Wichita State

Postby PorkTornado » January 17th, 2013, 2:05 pm

glm38 wrote:To me it just comes down to if WSU's superior defense can slow down CU's vaunted offense? Can they force Doug and company out of their comfort zones and make them miss shots? If its an offensive show by both teams I don't think WSU can win.

Should be a good one. Wish both teams were healthy but that's part of it.

ESPN preview:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8850569

Creighton only allows 2.2 more points per game than WSU in what I am assuming are far more possessions.
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Re: Creighton @ Wichita State

Postby valleychamp » January 17th, 2013, 2:12 pm

WSU averages 67.4 possessions/game compared to CU's 67.3.

WSU averages .87 defensive points/possession compared to CU's .91.
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Re: Creighton @ Wichita State

Postby shoxrox » January 17th, 2013, 2:12 pm

WSU's rebounding numbers are better because they're a better rebounding team. I don't think there's any arguing with that. WSU doesn't shoot at the clip CU does, but they don't shoot it terribly either.

I agree that if its a shoot out, give the edge to Creighton. If it's a grinder, then it goes to WSU. I will say WSU has the ability to score in bunches though, but I don't think they'll want to play that type of game with this team.
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Re: Creighton @ Wichita State

Postby PorkTornado » January 17th, 2013, 2:13 pm

valleychamp wrote:WSU averages 67.4 possessions/game compared to CU's 67.3.

WSU averages .87 defensive points/possession compared to CU's .91.

How about that for proving my assumption wrong with stats. I must miss some of WSU's possessions due to those terrible camera angles.
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