Just wait till next year

[bleach]

What the other Valley schools need to do like WSU is get their players to "pay their own way" for a year when they transfer.

Yep. And now the jealousy starts.

How is that jealousy?
All the Shox fans are telling everyone how to be like them and not mentioning they have an effective roster of 15 plus. Maybe WSU could share the formula for getting multiple players to pay their own way so the other teams could use it and raise the level of play in the Valley.

[rlh04d]

What the other Valley schools need to do like WSU is get their players to "pay their own way" for a year when they transfer.

Yep. And now the jealousy starts.

How is that jealousy?
All the Shox fans are telling everyone how to be like them and not mentioning they have an effective roster of 15 plus. Maybe WSU could share the formula for getting multiple players to pay their own way so the other teams could use it and raise the level of play in the Valley.

Maybe you could share what you actually think WSU's formula is rather than simply passive-aggressively adding quotation marks that clearly imply cheating?

Don't snipe comments and then pretend like you're not doing it. If you're going to make accusations, do it like a man.

[bleach]

WHERE did I imply cheating?
A little sensitive are we???? Hmmmm.

No one other than Shocker fans rooted harder for the Shox than I. I genuinely want to know the formula so we can use it. I simply don't know of another school in the country that has that good fortune. If it doesn't continue, the success may not either.

How many kids have you guys had pay their own way for a year lately? Seems at times like every player on the team.

[rlh04d]

WHERE did I imply cheating?
A little sensitive are we???? Hmmmm.

So I guess you being a man is out, then.

So your meaning of ...

"pay their own way"

... is what, then? I suppose you just fat-fingered quotes twice on accident? There would be no reason to write that if you thought those kids were actually paying their own way. You clearly believe they were not, which implies a violation of NCAA rules. Either say it or don't, but stop with this passive-aggressive crap.

How many kids have you guys had pay their own way for a year lately? Seems at times like every player on the team.

Armstead, Baker, and Coleby. Armstead lost playing time when his HC left Oregon, and he transferred to play for his old coach from Chipola, Greg Heiar. Baker received three scholarship offers: AR Little Rock, Eastern Illinois, and S. Dakota St. He was told he'd have a good shot at getting a scholarship at an in-state school if he walked on, and did so. I have no idea what the circumstances regarding Coleby are or why he left LA-Lafayette.

[valleychamp]

Would you really describe what Marshall's doing as "taking a Juco or transfer kid here and there" ?

Yes, other schools can continue to do things they way they have. We'll continue making the tournament every year, and other schools can continue making it once every few years when the stars line up and enough upper classmen get on the team. Your point is that teams that aren't being successful doing what they do should just keep doing it regardless, because maybe it'll work eventually. No one should bother at all to look at what a program that is consistently winning is doing and see if they can incorporate that in any way into their own programs. Good point.

I'm not saying the goal should be to fill your roster with Juco players. I am saying that having a dedication to scouting and recruiting Juco players gives you the ability to fill in gaps on a year to year basis to produce a consistent winner, which no program in the Valley other than Creighton and UNI has been able to do in a while, and UNI's missed three tournaments in a row now without anything close to a good resume in those years. Meanwhile WSU has had very credible NCAA resumes for four straight seasons.

No, I never said that. I honestly don't know how you could read what I posted and then come up with all of that.

Gregg certainly has taken an abnormally large number of JUCOs and transfers, and its worked for him. Doesn't mean that would be the case for other schools. In fact, I think history would show that more often than not, relying on a large number of JUCO guys is not conducive to long term success. Every school and every program is different, and what works for one doesn't mean its going to work for the other.

[rlh04d]

No, I never said that. I honestly don't know how you could read what I posted and then come up with all of that.

Every school and every program is different, and what works for one doesn't mean its going to work for the other.

What you said was ...

Other schools are going to continue doing things the way that they have, and WSU is going to continue doing things the way they have.

If what they have been doing isn't working, why would you continue to do things the same way?

I agree with your second point there. I'm certainly not arguing that I think we've discovered some magic formula everyone should imitate. I do, however, think that the system Oregon and Wichita State are currently using is working very well for both of those programs, and is likely an excellent bridge to build a high level of consistent success quickly before moving over into long-term players. It might not be for everyone, but it IS working, and it would be absurd for any coach in this conference, or in this country, to not look at a system that's working, figure out why it's working, and see what they can learn from it.

If you're not analyzing what works for others and modifying your system accordingly, you're not growing.

It's not just going "we're awesome copy us." When SIU had their amazing run, everyone should have looked at what they did and learned from it as well. Successful coaches develop systems that work. Adjusting aspects of that into your own system makes you a better coach. Marshall's four year stretch has been one of the best in MVC history ... to dismiss that as "WSU will keep doing what they've been doing and we'll keep doing what we're doing" seems rather small-minded. If that's the way we're looking at it, WSU will keep making NCAA tournaments and the other teams will continue missing them. Having consistent success is what we all want ... if one of the coaches has developed a method that seems to provide it, why wouldn't all programs see if they could use it as well?

[bleach]

WHERE did I imply cheating?
A little sensitive are we???? Hmmmm.

So I guess you being a man is out, then.

So your meaning of ...

"pay their own way"

... is what, then? I suppose you just fat-fingered quotes twice on accident? There would be no reason to write that if you thought those kids were actually paying their own way. You clearly believe they were not, which implies a violation of NCAA rules. Either say it or don't, but stop with this passive-aggressive crap.

How many kids have you guys had pay their own way for a year lately? Seems at times like every player on the team.

Armstead, Baker, and Coleby. Armstead lost playing time when his HC left Oregon, and he transferred to play for his old coach from Chipola, Greg Heiar. Baker received three scholarship offers: AR Little Rock, Eastern Illinois, and S. Dakota St. He was told he'd have a good shot at getting a scholarship at an in-state school if he walked on, and did so. I have no idea what the circumstances regarding Coleby are or why he left LA-Lafayette.

Quotes are for QUOTING!
SEVERAL WSU posters have said WSU players were "paying their own way".
Remove Armstead and Baker (if they don't pay their own way) and this run is likely shorter.
I thought Early was in that boat too but not quoting now.
All Valley schools would be greatly helped by having the equivalent to extra ships.

[rlh04d]

Quotes are for QUOTING!
SEVERAL WSU posters have said WSU players were "paying their own way".
Remove Armstead and Baker (if they don't pay their own way) and this run is likely shorter.
I thought Early was in that boat too but not quoting now.
All Valley schools would be greatly helped by having the equivalent to extra ships.

You don't put facts in quotation marks. A hundred articles have been written in the last few weeks that have mentioned those same facts ... in none of those articles were those words put in quotation marks. Not one.

Whatever. You took your cheap shot and are backing down from it. So be it.

*Edit: I checked on Coleby. He was one of five people to transfer from ULL last season. ULL denied his request to transfer, so he wasn't able to get a scholarship with anyone for last year. Regardless of where he went, he was going to be paying his own way for a year. His former JUCO coach played at WSU and steered him this way when he wanted to leave ULL.

[Wufan]

So....anyways...not sure where you are going with this rlh. I didn't see any slights in this thread.

Also, wasn't a sCUm fan that said "dumb JUCO?"

[rlh04d]

So....anyways...not sure where you are going with this rlh. I didn't see any slights in this thread.

I don't see any reason for putting something like that in quotes if it's not a slight. His reasoning that it's because others have said that phrase doesn't make any sense.

You don't put facts in quotes. You put opinions in quotes. Putting "paying their own way" in quotes implies that it's an opinion. He wouldn't write: Wichita State "went to the Final Four."

I can't think of one scenario where you put those words in quotes without intending them as a slight or as an allegation.